Help me come to grips with SAKs

[plowboy]

Hello everyone and forgive me for starting a new tread.

I am an avid Spyderco man and really like the products that Spyderco puts out. However, I'm being drawn to SAKs for a couple of reasons :

1) They seem that they could be very useful in a wide range of activities

2) People aren't put off by them.

So, I'm wanting to fall in love with SAKs. My problem is that I've become a little bit of a steel junkie. I understand that SAKs don't use high-end steel. I have been unable to find out just what steel is used in the primary blade and other tools housed in the knife. I suspect it is 420 stainless, but I don't know for sure.

Please let me know how the blade cuts and holds it's edge. If you know the type of steel used, please pass that information along. Also, are there any SAKs that are "premium?" By this I mean handles out of g10 or similar material and a blade steel in D2, s30v, or even 154 cm (or similar European steel).

I know you folks are true believers in SAKs and I want to be too. Please help me on this one.

I still love my Spydies, though.

Thanks in advance.

 

[MacTech]

Well, as a fellow Spyderholic, let me set your mind at ease, here's the reason *I* like SAK's

first, they're ubiquitous, everyone knows what a SAK is, and even the most sheepish sheeple have no problem with a SAK being used

secondly, they're *sharp*, they can easily be brought to Spydie-Sharp and above, sharpen a SAK at 30 degrees on a Sharpmaker and you have a blade that can rival a Cricket for sheer cutting efficiency, the thin flat grind is the key, thinner blades cut better, think scalpels...

the little blade, being thinner than the big blade, can be sharpened to scalpel-sharp and beyond, literally a few seconds ago i accidentally cut the side of my thumb (the SAK slipped out of my hand as i was pulling out the little blade), a short, shallow 3/4" cut, and i *didn't feel it*, it looked like a scratch....until the blood started to seep out, i *still* can't feel the cut, the edges of the cut are absolutely clean, no tearing, nothing, it *looks* like a scalpel cut....

no, the steel they use doesn't have the edge retention or durability of the Supersteels Spyderco uses, but they sharpen up so quickly and easily it's a non-issue, besides, sharpening is *fun* and with a SAK, you can have more fun more often

thirdly, they have tools, lots of tools, there's a tool combo to fit anyone's needs, be it a minimalist Bantam, or the top-of-the-line SwissChamp (and SwissChamp XLT), or any one inbetween, and tools are cool

heck, they even have a 111MM model with a one-handed reverse-combo-edge (serrations in the front) opening blade, the One Handed Trekker, it uses an oval opening hole, and uses a fairly primitive linerlock, but if you treat it as a slipjoint, it's nothing to worry about

fourth, they're just as addictive (if not moreso) as Spydies, the added advantage is they're also generally less expensive too, so you can collect *more* of them for the same amount of money....

the big "argument" with SAK's is not "which steel is better", but rather "which manufacturer is better, Wenger or Victorinox", some people prefer Vics., some prefer Wenger, some don't care as they're all good, besides, *both* Vic. and Wenger are official suppliers to the Swiss Army, both brands are legitimate

best bet to start is start off with a midsize knife (3-5 layers) to get a taste of what they're like, then get the "Toolbox" model from the vendor of your choice (Vic. SwissChamp or Wenger ToolBox Plus) then figure out your strategy from there

SAK's are like Lays potato chips.... "Betcha can't own just one!"

 

[Joe Dirt]

I am with MacTech.

I've been a SAKaholic for about a year now. I love 'em. I used to be a steel snob but now I just realize that I use what is useful to me. SAK's are useful.

I own more SAK's than any other knife I own. I love them more too.

They do everything I ever need done with a knife. They are also great for "Non-knife people".

Plus I'm getting kind of tired of paying out the rear for so called "tactical" knives.

I think the 2 best knives Victorinox makes are the Huntsman and the Ranger.

I also think Victorinox has the best multi-tool out there.

Good stuff.

Check out SOSAK over at www.knifeforums.com , and also www.sosakonline.com .

 

[Steely_Gunz]

I'm a Spydie fan as well. Sal is running a first rate ship over there and putting out some great stuff. I LOVE my SAKs. Mainly for the reasons stated. No one is freaked out by a SAK...well, i used my large locking Fireman model to cut the balloon off a car i wanted to test drive. The saleman said something about it being a knife from my "ghetto days" Sure dude, it's a SAK that locks, has a saw and a corkscrew...that just screams ghetto ya know with all that wood there is to saw in the city and all that wine that needs to be uncorked...Besides i was trying to buy a Passat
Anyway, most people that aren't idiots will find just about any SAK. I pack around an Alox farmer with me just about every day that I don't think I'll need my larger Fireman (these two are my favorites). The Farmer looks classy with it's alox scales and clean backspring (no tools like the hook, corkscrew or phillips driver). Great for work and it doesn't scare the customers at all.
Another thing that I love about the SAKs is that I have one for every situation. Will i need a phillips driver or a corkscrew? How about a small light if it's going to be dark? Am I going to run into a situation where I might need mulitple tools? I pick out my SAK of the day like my wife picks out the shoes she's going to wear.
SAK steel is not the "greatest". However, it takes an edge easily, cuts like crazy, and is very easy for me to sharpen on a butcher's steel followed by a leather strop. Quick, easy, fun, and sharp as can be.

Jake

 

[MacTech]

Ayuh, that's another great thing about SAK's is pairing the tools to the needs (right tools for the job and all), weekdays i carry a CyberTool 34, the thing is *perfect* for taking apart computers and putting them back together, the weekends i carry a SwissChamp, as i don't need the CyberTool's bitdriver....

theoretically, with those two SAK's i have all the tools i'll ever *need* (ideally, if i could find an inexpensive SwissChamp XLT, i could pare down my SAK needs to *one* knife, but where's the fun in that? ), so i shouldn't *need* any more SAK's, but the frelling things are so much fun, addictive, and inexpensive that i can't help buying more of them....

for the price of one Spydie (like the Delica/Endura) i could pick up a couple SAK's....

my current collection consists of;

Blue Signature Lite ($5 at local pawnshop)
Sapphire Climber ($15 used at KTP)
Camo Huntsman ($18 new at KTP)
One Handed Trekker ($35 at KTP)
Ruby CyberTool 34 ($20 at pawnshop)
SwissChamp ($20 at pawnshop)
SwissTool ($45 used at KTP, traded my Leatherman Blast for it)

each knife under the $50 retail KTP sells the Delica 3 for....

i still need a few minimalist SAK's, and some Alox models, i also saw a couple interesting 111MM SAK's at the pawnshop last week as well.....

since i've started carrying SAK's i've trimmed down my Spydie EDC, i used to carry 3-4, just because, now i'm down to 1-2 Spydies plus SAK's, typically Cricket+Dodo+SAK....

 

[plowboy]

Thanks everyone. I hope others will still keep "selling" me on the SAKs, so please post a comment if you have converted (or at least added an SAK to your EDC) from other knives.

As MacTech may know from the Spyderco Forum, I'm also a Dodo fan.

I've been looking at the Victorinox and Wenger webpages and I've found some of each I would like to try. I really like the looks of the Evo series by Wenger. I also like Pioneer, Farmer and Fieldmaster from Victorinox.

Joe Dirt you make a good point about carrying something useful as opposed to something snobish. I need to get that through this hard bald head.

Steely_Gunz thanks for sharing your story at the car dealership. I like your comment about how you pick an SAK like your wife picks shoes.

It seems that the blades on SAKs take a nice edge (and are thin), but need sharpening a bit more often than a s30v, D2 etc. I have the Sharpmaker and a good strop and don't mind sharpening, so this probably is not a big issue.

Thanks for your recommendation and let me know anything else that may help me as I think about this.

 

[Don Luis]

I carry a SAK (Huntsman) not so much as a knife but as a tool, I also carry a Leatherman mostly for the pliers, and I try to complement its tools with the SAK, for example I carry a SAK with corkscrew because the Leatherman has the Phillips driver, I don't need a Leatherman with scissors because I have those in the SAK, etc.

The knife blade in the SAK does get some use, like for scrapping or some other rough use or to look OK in front of the sheeple, however the most used blade is the screwdriver, and then scissors, etc. When I have have to go light and can only carry one knife, it's usually a SAK.

I'd say go ahead and buy a SAK, maybe a two or three springs wide, keep the box and papers, if you get to like it fine, if you don't, it can make a good present for someone.

Luis

 

[MacTech]

Well, just as an example here, my CyberTool 34 helped me field strip an old iBook G3, the only tools i needed were the CyberTool and an Apple nonconductive plastic pry tool, A.K.A. the "Black Stick"....

previously, i had to use a jewelers Phillips #1, Jewelers Phillips #2, a Torx T-8 and the aforementioned "black stick", and the tools tended to get scattered around my work areas, many times i've had a repair held up because i couldn't find one of my screwdrivers, with the CyberTool, one self-contained SAK is all i need.....

i've used it to take apart iBooks, PowerBook G4's, and even iMac G5/ Intel Core Duo models, no more frantic searching for the right driver, i got 'em *all* in my pocket....

 

[felinevet]

Here is some information on blades and scales:

So, I'm wanting to fall in love with SAKs. My problem is that I've become a little bit of a steel junkie. I understand that SAKs don't use high-end steel. I have been unable to find out just what steel is used in the primary blade and other tools housed in the knife. I suspect it is 420 stainless, but I don't know for sure. Please let me know how the blade cuts and holds it's edge. If you know the type of steel used, please pass that information along.

From Victorinox -
For both blades we use chrome molydenum stainless steel with 0.52% carbon, 15% chromium, 0.5% molydenum, 0.45% manganese and 0.6% silicium. After a sophisticated hardening process at 1040°C and an annealing temperature of 160°C the blades achieve a hardness of RC 56. * The woodsaw, scissors and nail files have a hardness of RC 53, the screwdriver, tin opener and awl a hardness of RC 52, and the corkscrew and springs RC 49. * The metal saw and file, in addition to the special case hardening, are also subjected to a hard chromium plating process so that iron and steel can also be filed and cut. * The separators have been made from aluminium alloy since 1951. This makes the knife lighter and easier to carry in one's pocket. Formerly these separating layers were made of nickel-silver.



Also, are there any SAKs that are "premium?" By this I mean handles out of g10 or similar material and a blade steel in D2, s30v, or even 154 cm (or similar European steel).

Factory SAKs are produced with Nylon, Cellidor (a cellulose based product) or ALOX (Aluminum Oxide) scales. Lots of people do custom scale mods. Check in at SOSAK on KF and, for mod supplies, your go to guy is Rotokid at: http://rotokid.sosakonline.com/index.php?option=com_frontpage&Itemid=1

 

[geothorn]

Welcome to BladeForums, plowboy!

Did you say "premium" SAKs...?

The one above would set you back approximately $67,020.05....

GeoThorn

 

[felinevet]

Sorry, in my previous post I forgot to mention the Stainless Steel, Gold, Platinum, Sterling Silver, etc. that can be had as specialties from Vic. Most of these are limited to 58mm size but some are larger. They also do special runs for companies as retirement, acheivement gifts, etc.

 

[pholder]

it's not so much that sak's need sharpening more often because they are " lesser steel," it's that they are simply used more often.

 

[parnass]

... People aren't put off by them [SAKs].
... Also, are there any SAKs that are "premium?" By this I mean handles out of g10 or similar material ...

Most laymen think all SAKs have red plastic scales. Therefore, the people you wish to put at ease may not recognize a fancier SAK as a Swiss Army Knife and may get the jitters.

 

[inspira]

I answered this question somewhere else but again:

For both blades we use chrome molydenum stainless steel with 0.52% carbon, 15% chromium, 0.5% molydenum, 0.45% manganese and 0.6% silicium. After a sophisticated hardening process at 1040°C and an annealing temperature of 160°C the blades achieve a hardness of RC 56. * The woodsaw, scissors and nail files have a hardness of RC 53, the screwdriver, tin opener and awl a hardness of RC 52, and the corkscrew and springs RC 49. * The metal saw and file, in addition to the special case hardening, are also subjected to a hard chromium plating process so that iron and steel can also be filed und cut. * The separators have been made from aluminium alloy since 1951. This makes the knife lighter and easier to carry in one\'s pocket. Formerly these separating layers were made of nickel-silver.

 

[plowboy]

Okay,

geothorn you have convinced me that there are premium SAKs. At $67,000 and change I would say this is premium....a bit too premium for my pockets.

felinevet and inspira, thanks for the steel information.

MacTech, Don Luis, pholder and parnass thanks for your comments. You have helped me make the decision. I'm going out at lunch today to see if I can find me an SAK. I kinda know which one I'm looking for first (well either EVO 16, EVO 18 or EVO S 17). If I see a Victorinox Pioneer I may pick it up too.

I'll let you know what happens.

Thanks for your help and the warm welcome to the bladeforum.

 

[Joe Dirt]

You're going to buy a Wenger?

Get the real deal and buy a Victorinox. I just don't care for anything made by Wenger.

 

[allenC]

It seems that the blades on SAKs take a nice edge (and are thin), but need sharpening a bit more often than a s30v, D2 etc.

Take two pieces of wood.
And have a wood cutting contest between a Spydeco Military and a Victorinox Fieldmaster.

I'll bet you will have to sharpen the S30V Military before you have to sharpen the woodsaw of the Fieldmaster!

The Fieldmaster is my favorite "fishing knife":
The scissors are great for trimming fishing line.
The woodsaw is great for making a rod-holder when bank fishing.
The screwdrivers are great for tightening the screws on the reel.
The awl/reamer is great for opening split sinkers.
The hook is great for pulling line without cutting your fingers.
And the bottle-opener is great for opening Heineken beer!

Try doing all of that with a tactical folder.

 

[ging]

Take two pieces of wood.
And have a wood cutting contest between a Spydeco Military and a Victorinox Fieldmaster.

I'll bet you will have to sharpen the S30V Military before you have to sharpen the woodsaw of the Fieldmaster!

Try doing all of that with a tactical folder.

Well said Allen, that is what SAK's are all about

Welcome to the forum plowboy!

 

[plowboy]

Have a cutting contest between the SAK and one of my high dollar s30v blades? You offer the challenge with a good dose of confidence. In fact, it sounds like you know the SAK will be the winner.

Gee, if this is true then I've got to really adjust my thinking.

Anyway, I did make a run a few minutes ago and brought back an EVO 16. You know what, the darn thing popped hairs from my arm. I'll see about how the edge holds up.

Hey, Joe Dirt, I got the Wenger...I liked the looks of it. But I tell you what, I make you a promise to pick up a comparable Victorinox and see what the "real thing" is all about. I'll probably end up ordering it online, so it may be a week or two before I let you know my preference. But I promise to get the Victorinox.

Ging, you have a little spydie above your log name...good going!

Thanks.

 

[allenC]

Have a cutting contest between the SAK and one of my high dollar s30v blades? You offer the challenge with a good dose of confidence. In fact, it sounds like you know the SAK will be the winner.

Gee, if this is true then I've got to really adjust my thinking.

Yep, the SAK would win with ease--no doubt about it.

Don't get me wrong, I still have a need for a one-hand-pocketclip-folder.
At this very moment I have my Fieldmaster in one pocket and a Spyderco Endura 4 in the other pocket.

The Endura 4 is the one I reach for about 98% of the time because it is quick and easy to access and deploy, and most of my daily cutting tasks are rather light in nature (cutting a string or paper, slicing open a package, cutting down boxes, stuff like that).
Plus the Endura 4 can be used for self-defense if need arises.

But if I needed to cut several large pieces of wood in to halves, the Fieldmaster's woodsaw would be the blade of choice.
There is simply no way that the Endura 4's VG-10 blade can compete with the woodsaw.
It's not a matter of blade-steel, it's a matter of design.
The Victorinox woodsaws are extremely efficient little beavers!

Cheers,
Allen.