Help me start off right?

W

Wasz

Joined
Oct 2, 2002
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353
I'm not a chef or even all that good of a cook at home. I do cook though and it's something I slowly find myself doing a bit more of. Even though I lack cooking prowess I do like knives and take some pride in having a couple decent blades around. As of yet that has no translated to the kitchen, but I think it's time that it should

Right now I have some generic knife set in a block that I was given to me as a hand me down a few years ago. Every blade is serrated and generally horrible. I'd like to start piecing my way to having some decent knives in the kitchen, but I'm clueless where to start. I'm 30 years old, I'm willing to make a reasonable investment as I could have and use these knives for a long time. This will likely mean I'll get one or two pieces at a time spaced out over a period of time.

If you were outfitting someone like me who's just starting to enjoy cooking a little more, what specific knives, as in blade shape and size would you recommend and why? What steel would they be made of? What brand would you suggest? What order should I buy them in?

And if you don't feel like going through all that where would you suggest I learn more?
 
Ok I read, and read on some of the knives in there. It looks like the Tojiro line is about where I was thinking of being. The DP series makes the most sense for ease of use, unless there is some benefit to the white #2 at that price point? I'm not bothered by carbon steel.

Taking what Divo said into account, I have no clue what kind of technique I use. I'm not that deep into things at this point. I will say that the paring knife seems to be my most used. I use the chefs knife second most to chop veg, potatoes and sometimes cut meat. I slice chicken breast often, but usually use the paring knife, because it's sharpest and the only one I have that isn't serrated.
 
Once you start using a nice, thin, light 8-10" Japanese gyuto, your paring knife will become the SECOND knife you reach for. ;') Wouldn't hurt to have a 6" Petty/utility knife as well. You'll think you're in heaven after cutting everything with a bloody paring knife. LOL
 
A lot of great references in that 100 and under thread, but still a great category for buying knives to start out with that will last a long time if cared for.

Here's what I'd offer as a suggestion for a starting kit:

birds beak paring
5-6" inch petty
7-9.5" santoku or guyoto
Semiflexible butcher knife you're comfortable with
Serrated bread knife

Now within those ranges I'm mostly thinking of japanese molyV steels from MAC, Fujiwara, and Tojiro. If I had to pick two to start with, it'd probably be the bird's beak and the 7-9.5" santoku or guyoto, but it's a tough call, where I'm at now, I'd just take the birds beak and 5" petty.
 
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Is there any upside to using the santoku in a home kitchen vs the larger gyutos?
 
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Wasz said:
Is there any upside to using the santoku in a home kitchen vs the larger gyutos?
Click to expand...

Not really, unless you find a pointer tip problematic. The thinner and smaller profiled tip on a gyuto is much more useful in my opinion, as it makes the tip actually useful for things.
 
As to your cutting technique and which kind you use, this is probaby one of the best videos I've soon going over them.

[video=youtube_share;sH8pgoMzVSs]http://youtu.be/sH8pgoMzVSs[/video]

As to what kinds of knives to get, I'd start with a 210mm gyuto, which would be 8.25ish inches. Most people prefer the Japanese style gyuto (which can be had with both japanese style nd western style handles) over the western/german chef knives because the japanese knives typically run much harder. Most german knives are run mid-upp 50's rc, while japanese knives are usually ran upper 50s to low 60's. They may be harder to sharpen and react less well to steeling but the edge will last longer.

210mm my seem big at first but you'll get used to it very easily. Most prefer 240mm but 210 is the typical starting place. My main knife is 240 and when i go back to my 210 it feels small and IMO my fathers 180mm santoku is not very pleasurable to use for veggie prep because I keep wanting more blade.



I'd recommend:

210mm gyuto (the brands listed above would be perfect)
A boning knife which could also be used as a petty/utlity (i'll recomment victorinox fibrox)
a paring knife (again the vnox fibrox one will be fine, and they even make a set that comes with the birds beak and regular one.)

The vnox fibrox knives sure aren't pretty, but once you get used to the gyuto you'll be reaching for your other knives less and less.

That should get you started for under $150, then if you feel you have any gaps you can fill them in... for example the bread knife mentioned above, a slicer/carver, maybe a larger gyuto or a santoku if you don't like the 210 gyuto.



White #2 is a pretty decent steel...easily sharpens holds a decent edge, but being a carbon steel can easily rust if not taken care of properly especially when cutting acidic foods or if you live in a humid area. If you don't mind it being a carbon steel white #2 is a well regarded steel.

One of the advantages of a santoku is that it has a higher profile near the tip which makes it better for scooping and transferring veggies, it kinda slots in between a gyuto/chef knife and a veg cleaver or nakiri, the other I guess would be the size. if you're cramped for space there arent a TON of options for good gyutos under 210mm, maybe a few at 180 but most knives in that range are petties or santokus.
 
You should buy from a retailer with a good reputation, preferably local or a recommended online retailer who answers questions, so you can learn to trust them and understand their advice. Start with a 210mm chefs knife/gyuto from one of the reasonably priced popular brands like Tojiro, Fujiwara, or Misono (lower lines are still good). There are lots others like Susin, Yaxell, Takayagi, Gekko, Gonbei, KAI, Mazasumi, and so on. Just get one to start. Don't price shop - buy the retailer.
You'll need a stone and to learn to sharpen. Start with a 1000 grit and be prepared for some funky results the first few times. A dull knife is useless.
Once you're confident with the new knife and the stone you can add in all the other bits you need: a santoku or utility knife, an offset bread knife, a slicer, boner, and so on.
Don't buy another set. You get an overall discount that way but you buy knives you don't need and end up buying others that aren't included. Buy one at a time and take time to understand what you like and don't like before you buy another.
 
I was in your shoes a few months ago.
Had a block of cutco serated knives. And a drawer full of cheap knives that got mistreated.

After learning about making fixed blade knives I got interested in better kitchen knives.
My 2 cents - go slow on the knives. ( 1 victorinox chef or santoku is around 40 bucks )
And get a good sharpening system ASAP.
I have 3 - v-sharp, and a pull thru that is more of a hone - and just picked up a knock off edge pro apex.
The vsharp is EZ - and ok and makes even cheap knives usable. But won't get to japanese angles.
Haven't used apex much yet but lots of research said for under $30 it could do anything with a few good stones added.

I was reading and looking online for japanese knives. I have a teen who cooks too so I needed a " beater" knife everyone could use. That may end up in the dishwasher. someone suggested victorinox but I thought boring. I ordered a reactive hand made japanese knife with aogami steel. Been using it a little. Can get it scary sharp but it can chip and will rust if left wet.
And on a whim I went to sur la table - they have vegetables and demo cutting board where u can try out knives.
I tried a few knives while there. Shun, global or Mac , morinoto red, Some German henkels. And a few that are out of my price range.
Then I tried the victorinox 8 chef . A petty. And then the 7 santoku. It just worked for me. So I got it. And for 5 bucks more I got victorinox pairing knife. Made all my knives feel like butter knives.
I'll be getting some more japanese knifes soon that have harder steel. But. That victorinox is cheap and great.
The handle sizes are different on their chef and santoku's.

Go try out some in person. Then Get 1. And go from there.
Also don't forget something to keep them safe in a drawer or block. I got a 7 blade drawer block.
And a good cutting board if you don't have already.

German knives - heavier, steel tends to be softer. Ez to sharpen. But feels solid. Avg 22 angle on each edge.
Japanese knives - lighter, more nimble, steels tend to be harder. Can chip if hit ice or bones. And 10-15 degree angles - so technically sharper. Needs sharpen less often. But can be hard to sharpen.
Victorinox -Swiss - on lighter side but not as light as some Japanese. And medium hard steel. 22 angles. Used by butchers and many chefs.
 
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