Help me step up my sharpening game - 154CM

N

N8N

Joined
Mar 17, 2007
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204
Just got a new Grip (154CM)... one major problem with it. It's really not sharp at all.

My entire sharpening setup consists of an ancient Carborundum double-sided oil stone in a homemade wooden box; I think it was my grandfather's. Might have been my great grandfather's. Probably needs to be replaced anyway as it's got a good divot in it from several generations of use. Anyway, I dragged it out today and my Grip is laughing at it. I can still see the factory marks on the one edge of the blade (it was ground a little biased to the butterfly logo side as well; I tried to even it out on the coarse stone, but I honestly really can't tell if I did anything.) I did manage to raise a burr on a SOG Flash 2 (AUS-8) but on the Grip, not so much. My arm hairs are not frightened at all, and the phone books are nonplussed. Needless to say, my thumb and fingers can dance all over the thing without fear. Not exactly what I was hoping for from such a well regarded knife; I was hoping to have to treat it with a little respect. I know that it's possible for a knife to be that sharp; I handled a few before purchasing this one (mail-order) and even though I thought I was properly respectful I still have a little tiny cut on my right middle finger, and I'm not even sure from what knife I got it!

What are you guys using? I wouldn't be averse to an inexpensive "system" either, as I *think* I'm good at sharpening with a stone, but there's nothing like *knowing* you're holding a consistent angle. (what angle BTW? 20 degrees-ish? I didn't bother to try to make any little cardboard angles to measure, I just Sharpied it and rolled with that)

I *almost* wanna send it back to BM and have them sharpen it, but that's just postponing the inevitable; I need to be able to sharpen stuff myself.

Thanks for any advice!
 
depends on your budget, You can get the same results with sandpaper and a leather belt, than you can with an edge pro , If your technique is good. If you want to be budget friendly I suggest just that, grab some wet dry sand paper in as many grits possible, and to the highest grit you can find and go to work. If you want to buy stones , then choices are endless, you could go diamonds , or water stones, waterstones, go to a finer grit, but need to be flattened , and will eventually wear out or dish as the stone you have now is doing. I use sandpaper to freehand, and finish with a spyderco Uf benchstone IMO that stone is worth its weight in gold. For my first sharpening or setting a bevel, or for harder steels, I will use the Edge Pro , Then I try to stay freehand after only using the edge pro once.
 
really, how do you do that, with a glass backing? I can probably afford a small piece of glass (or just do it on the coffee table...)

I actually have TONS of wet/dry as my real hobby is old cars. Probably have everything from 240 grit to 2000 or 3000 (for cutting and buffing paint)

what grit do you typically start at?
 
I just use a diamond stone for all the "High Tech" blades. At least get a good ceramic stone.
 
I don't let my edges get degraded so 600 is my starting grit, for reprofiling 325 or lower if you have it, and you can mount it to anything flat. Check out a guy named heavyhanded on here and his washboard system, he made it to get the most out of using just regular paper and sandpaper. I wrap my sandpaper around a 20 dollar smiths diamond benchstone, the circles in the diamond stone really make the sandpaper excel. why not use just the diamond you say? Well its rated at 750 grit, and I doubt its even that it barely cuts anything...
 
A couple of diafolds and a strop really make a nice setup, and if you want a "system", they make a magnetic jig that holds the stones while you sharpen. I have a extra-coarse/coarse and a fine/extra fine, and I love it. Really, one would be nicely equipped by just having the jig and a coarse/fine diafold (which would be blue and red) and a strop.

That's pretty much all I use for sharpening anymore, and I have paper wheels, a lansky, mousepads and sandpaper, and regular benchstones.

My experience with the sandpaper showed me that I had to go through too much sandpaper to be really cost-effective.




I've also found that my favorite edge is fairly coarse, say around 320 grit, with a light stropping to deal with any wire edge and to slightly refine it. Gets plenty sharp to do anything I need, and still retains the bite of a coarser edge. (which really helps when cutting things like zipties)
 
Tripton said:
A couple of diafolds and a strop really make a nice setup, and if you want a "system", they make a magnetic jig that holds the stones while you sharpen. I have a extra-coarse/coarse and a fine/extra fine, and I love it. Really, one would be nicely equipped by just having the jig and a coarse/fine diafold (which would be blue and red) and a strop.

That's pretty much all I use for sharpening anymore, and I have paper wheels, a lansky, mousepads and sandpaper, and regular benchstones.

My experience with the sandpaper showed me that I had to go through too much sandpaper to be really cost-effective.

I've also found that my favorite edge is fairly coarse, say around 320 grit, with a light stropping to deal with any wire edge and to slightly refine it. Gets plenty sharp to do anything I need, and still retains the bite of a coarser edge. (which really helps when cutting things like zipties)
Click to expand...

Is the DMT DMG-4 what you're referring to? Looks a lot like the Lansky but with diamonds and a slightly more palatable price. Now on my list of things to think about.

I've never used diamonds, but if they cut significantly faster, I probably would want some sort of guide to minimize the consequences of a bad stroke...
 
I found my Grippie in 154Cm difficult to sharpen. Took a long while on diamond hone, starting with DMTcoarse (blue) to establish the bevel I wanted. Did take a fineedge eventually, though. I picked up a Grippie in D2 from Cabella's that I like a lot better: easier to sharpen, and has more of a 'bite'.
 
I have 2 6" DMT diamond sharpeners, Coarse and Fine, then two 8" Spyderco ceramic stones, Medium and Fine.
(The Med. Spyderco is finer than the the Fine DMT) Then a leather strop w/ green paste.
 
For that steel my 400 Chosera works, but my DMT extra course cuts much faster. Added bonus with the diamonds is they shred everything, so thinning out the edge, even on the high carbides, is pretty quick. After that i've been using a Spyderco medium to shape and finish. If i'm looking for a mall ninja blade forums special, i'll finish additionally with the fine and ultra fine.
I'd avoid the sharpening contraptions, especially if you are already good freehanding. I'm embarrassed to admit that I have an edge pro. It works well for most folders, some it's a pain in the butt. The results I get now are equal to what I was getting on the edge pro, and it's a faster, trouble free result.
Check out Cliff Stamp on YT. He has a few vids on stones and sharpening, he explains the results he gets with different steels and stones. Also, I think it was ckc knives that had a pretty good vid on using sand paper to sharpen.

Cheers

PS Just saw your above post. Just practice on some cheap kitchen/steak knives. Once the muscle memory kicks in, you'll wonder what all the fuss was about.
 
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A number of tools and techniques have propelled my sharpening to new levels over the past few years. One of those was getting a truly coarse stone that showed my grinding progress very clearly and VERY quickly! In this case, the DMT Extra Extra Coarse stone. It's the combination of incredible grinding speed, and being able to see the coarse grind lines that make it such a great tool.

You're using sharpie, which is also a great observational tool. If you're removing all of the sharpie from the edge (from shoulder to cutting edge) then you're on the right track. If you're not, your angle needs to be adjusted, or your angle *holding* needs work. I suspect you simply have a nice dull edge you're working on, and you need to work some more, preferably with a very coarse stone, so you can make some progress.

Try this: Stand near a bright overhead light. Hold the blade edge so it's facing straight up and look down at it. Move it around until you can see the light playing over it. Now look right at the cutting edge and angle it so the light is reflected from the tip down to the hilt. Do you see a reflection from the cutting edge? Do you see shiny spots? Long areas of shiny? If so, those are where it is very dull.

If you don't see light reflected, you may simply be grinding at too low of an angle and not actually hitting the cutting edge. Sharpie the edge again, do a little grinding and see if you're removing it from edge to shoulder.

Let us know how it goes. ...and good luck!

Brian.
 
Get a new carborundum double-sider. I used one to drastically re-bevel my 154-CM Grip in less time than it's going to take to type this. A new stone will be flat and don't forget it's an oilstone-feed it. You can put a great edge on the 154CM with the finer side and if you really want to get carried away, wrap your sandpaper around the stone and refine your edge with edge-trailing strokes. Work your way up through grits (I like 600, 1000, 1500, etc.) to whatever level you desire. If you want the best results, get HeavyHanded's Washboard strop. It loves this kinda sharpening and gives feedback of a nature that, literally, allows stropping with eyes closed( if you don't mind the occasional sutures).
ET on typing: about 5 min.; same as rebevelling Grip. (I'm slow. One vital finger out of action. Sutured.)
 
Get a cheap double sided diamond stone off ebay..they go for about 9 bucks delivered and they work very well.
 
N8N said:
really, how do you do that, with a glass backing? I can probably afford a small piece of glass (or just do it on the coffee table...)

I actually have TONS of wet/dry as my real hobby is old cars. Probably have everything from 240 grit to 2000 or 3000 (for cutting and buffing paint)

what grit do you typically start at?
Click to expand...

I've used a so-called 'candle plate' purchased at Hobby Lobby for about $5. Just a flat, rectangular glass plate about 9" X 12", 1/4" thickness; the top side had bevelled edges, and the bottom had little rubber feet at the corners. I used a razor blade to gently remove the rubber feet, and flipped the plate over to use the flat (bottom) side. Then re-attached the rubber feet on the bevelled top side (they remained sticky, so this was easy). Then used some 'DAP Weldwood Multipurpose Spray Adhesive' to attach the wet/dry paper to the glass. A standard sheet of wet/dry cut into 3 pieces (lengthwise) will make benchstone-sized strips. The adhesive can be used in a temporary fashion by spraying the back of the paper and letting it sit for 10-15 minutes until it becomes tacky, but still dry to the touch. Press the paper to the glass; it can be removed at any time after that.

This combination really impressed me, in that it performed very much like the silicon carbide stone I'd purchased at Home Depot. Even had the same 'glassy' ring to it as the stone. The glass backing under the paper will make the abrasive work very aggressively (and using the adhesive to firmly attach it makes it even more assertive), and will also minimize or eliminate any chance of compression of the substrate & edge-rounding. Silicon carbide wet/dry paper will easily grind steels like 154CM/ATS-34, 440C, D2 and others with fairly high chromium carbide content. Grind new bevels with something like 220-grit; refining can be done with any grit from 320 and up, depending on how toothy or polished you want the finished edge to be (polishing usually begins at around 800-grit and up, with near-mirror starting at 1000-2000). I prefer edge-trailing strokes, mainly just to protect the paper from being cut; it also works well to reduce lateral pressure into the apex, and therefore reduces issues with oversized burrs.


David
 
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