Help me understand pre dyed / pre tanned leather

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vilePossum

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well, as posted in Paul's thread (and to avoid further derailing it) i felt like i should make my own thread about the matter at hand.
as Paul pointed out his leather comes tanned in different colours, so for those colours available he probably doesn't have to dye it.
which is something i really like as i found that most folks will prefer natural or soft brown or earthen colours anyways. that and dyeing is of course always one additional step (and point to mess up).

so after Paul explained that it is not dyeing but the actual tanning process that gives it the colour i was interested... and immediately disappointed. seems like this is kind of hard to come by. and if it is coloured by the tanning process, chances are it is somehow surface treated... which kind of eliminates it for embossing.

i looked up Wickett and Craig and everything they offer except skirting and tooling leather seems to be treated as well. so i am kind of at loss. the skirting talks about it being dyed.

so, is it dyed, is it tanned and what kind of surface treatment still allows for tooling?
 
The skirting leather is what Paul and many others here use. It is veg tanned, and the color is from a drum dying process (where in the tanning process the dying actually takes place, I don't know). The skirting is also available un-dyed (natural) and is almost white. All of the colors tool very nicely.
Most of WC's other leathers (English Bridle, latigos, etc) are 'hot stuffed' with a surface treatment of oils and waxes. I have not tried them so I don't know about their tool-ability, but it's probably not as good as the skirting.
 
hmmmm, so either the leather shop didn't have anything like it or he misunderstood me... dang, i can't even make myself understood in my own language...
 
Possum, Leather is tanned by several processes. Vegetable tanning is one of these processes. If you want to case, carve , stamp and otherwise embellish your leather, you need to stick to veg. tan, period! Dyeing leather, a completely different process than tanning. Drum dyed leather is the method Wickett and Craig and many others use. The leather is completely immersed in the color of choice and it comes out evenly dyed grain and flesh. If it was veg. tan prior to dyeing it will still carve, stamp and case pretty much like veg. tan leather which was not dyed.

Paul
 
thanks, didn't want do further derail your post. yeah, i get the part about veg tanned... so far i only found veg tanned pre dyed leather which has some kind of treatment... like the english bridel... i guess i will have to keep looking ;)
 
The W and C English Bridle leather is veg tan too. It stamps decent. Wouldn't do a full flower carve deal on it but say you were doing just a border stamp on a project its fine. It has a bunch of oils and waxes stuffed into it to make it bridle leather (make it more resitant to horse sweat). Won't take water too well but stamps without it.
 
I've tried the english bridle and as Dave says, it doesn't take water well at all. So for me that makes it about useless. I used dyed skirting from W&C and buy it by the back in various colors. Drum dye gives your end customers more consistency piece to piece. For me it is unlikely that a customer will spend $1000+ at one time for all matching gear although it has happened, it is much more likely that they will buy one or two pieces at a time over the course of several months/years. Not only is the drum dye cheaper per square foot by a fairly significant amount it also cuts down on production time a fair amount. I keep 8 oz skirting in Black, Russet, Chestnut, Brown, Havana, & Mohogany, 6 oz in natural & brown for belt liners, and 3/4 oz in brown and natural for liners, ammo loops, etc. The major down side to pre-dyed leather for a small maker is the start up costs. I keep 6 separate hides (roughly $1200) where one $200 back plus dye used to work.
 
okay thanks. well, i guess i will have to keep on dyeing and practicing. it seems that most leather shops over here don't carry it. and while i would prefer a more evenly dyed leather as it would save a lot of time, it is not mandatory.
 
I've thought about buying drum dyed, but, as has been pointed out, the cost is an issue. Anyway I like dying. Using proper methods hand dying works great. By proper methods I mean cleaning the leather well, using top quality dye, correct application etc.

I stock yellow, green, blue, red, a few browns and black. Most guys go with brown or black, but I like having the brighter colors for the more adventurous. I love your green dye work and I doubt it's even available drum dyed.

I'm sure you wouldn't, but don't confuse skirting with bellies. I almost placed an order for bellies before I realized the difference.
 
Florian, try find a shoe manufacturer , they use pre-dyed leather, possible they might sell or point you in the right direction.
We have one that purely supplies the shoe industry and also sell to the public.
 
Confused as I was about the whole thing it wouldn't have surprised me if I had ordered sheep. ;) for now I will stick with dyes until I can visit a shop in person.
 
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