Help on date and steels of 119 Special and 118 Personal

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winchester73

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Unlike my 110 which has two dots and very hard to sharpen leading me to believe the steel is 440C, I bought a 18 Personal I believe I bought in the late 70's and it only has Buck 118 underneath and then usa nderneath. No lines no dots. Can someone help me date and tell me if it is 440 C. The same with a Buck 119 that I bought in '86 from K-Mart no dots or lines just Buck then 119 then USA but it could have been old stock. I think the 118 is probably 440c but not sure if the special is 425M or 44C. They both came in the old parchment color boxes.
 
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The two line 118 would for sure be 440C, but pictures would be essential in order to date it more accurately. Same for the 119. If the tang stamp is read with the tip up, it would date from 1973 thru 1985. that would cover the time periods when 440C and later 425M was used. Pictures of the handle/pommel, guard area's of the knife will help to date it by the number of spacers used.
 
Ooops, I misread the info on your 118 and see that it's not a two line. If it's a three line, it would be the same info as for the 119.
 
The odd part is they have no lines or dots at all like I looked up on the forim list for dates of manufacture symbols. Both of them only have Buck then 119 or 118 then USa and that's all. I would guess from the time I bought the personal it would e 440C but still not sure on that 119. If it is 455M is it that much more of a lesser steel that 420Hc. Of cousrse I don't beleve they had Paul Bos around to work his heat treat magic during the time they were doing 425m.
 
The knives prior to 1986 will all be stamped this way, on all fixed blade knives. As for the steel, 425M isn't any lessor of a steel than 440C or 420Hc. Some like it more some less but none are better than either of the rest. The steels Buck used were changed for ease of manufacturing. 440 was to hard to stamp out blades and wore out the machine parts. Its not like now-a-days where everybody wants the latest and greatest steel, they changed because they had to. I believe 425M was becoming difficult to come by and 420HC was easier to find.
 
Good to know. I was researching my 110 and it is 440c as I thoght. So with no markings you would jsut have to go by the dates you bought the knives on the fixed blades.
 
Your 110 has 440c but the reason its hard to sharpen has nothing to do with the steel,it has to do with the blade shape.You will notice a 440c blade is much thicker above the edge,and a nice convex edge is what will work better for you on that knife.It will sharpen up so good you will think its a different knife.
 
winchester73 said:
Good to know. I was researching my 110 and it is 440c as I thoght. So with no markings you would jsut have to go by the dates you bought the knives on the fixed blades.
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Since the knives which are stamped with three lines (read tip up) and no post-1986 date stamp, they could have been made during a 12 year period. That's why I mentioned the spacers, number of them and their arraingment. They can help to pin the date of manufacture down a little closer.

440C steel blades are known for being harder to sharpen than 425M or 420HC, one reason being that it's just harder steel. That's one of the reasons (if not the main reason) that Buck went to 425M when the switched to fine blanking their blades. The harder 440C was too hard on the equipment.

1. Group 1 1972- Blade stamped BUCK, XXX, U.S.A. Stamp is upside down or inverted, read with the point down, Guard has two micarta spacers and two aluminum spacers. Pommel has two micarta spacers and one aluminum spacer. A holster style, or Flap over sheath was used and the knife came in a two piece yellow bow.

Group 2 1973-1980 Blade stamped BUCK, XXX, U.S.A. Stamp is right side up, read with the point up, as it is on today's knives. Guard has two micarta and two aluminum spacers. Pommel has two micarta spacers and one aluminum spacer. Holster style, or Flap over sheath still used and the knife originally came in a two piece yellow bow but the switch to a one piece yellow box probably started around 1978.

Group 3 1981 Blade stamped BUCK, XXX, U.S.A. and is oriented the same as the previous group. Guard has one micarta and two aluminum spacers. Pommel has two micarta spacers and one aluminum spacer. I should note that I have only seen the 119, 120, a couple 121s, and one 118 in this configuration and it is likely that the other models skipped this and went straight to the next version. Holster style sheath still possible but also wrap around the handle type is introduced. The belt loop on the 120 swivels. Same one piece yellow box as previous.

Group 4 1981-1986 Blade stamp is still the same as the previous group. Guard has one micarta spacer and two aluminum spacers. Pommel has one micarta and one aluminum spacer. Holster style sheath is still in use on some models. Just about every type of sheath is found in this group. Still the same one piece yellow box as previous.

Group 5 1986- Blades now have a date code following the model number and are stamped BUCK, XXX<, U.S.A. This is the only difference between this group and the one previous. Sheath styles used are probably the same as the group above. Although the logo on the box may have changed slightly, it is still a one piece yellow construction. Over the next many years the boxes used were one piece Black with white letters, then green and tan, category boxes, and now the present orange and black.
 
RAZORBLADES said:
Your 110 has 440c but the reason its hard to sharpen has nothing to do with the steel,it has to do with the blade shape.You will notice a 440c blade is much thicker above the edge,and a nice convex edge is what will work better for you on that knife.It will sharpen up so good you will think its a different knife.
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Can't say as I agree with this totally. Although the grind of the blade plays a part in the difficulty of sharpening, so does the steel type. 440C is a hard steel period. Buck stopped using 440 because it was too hard for their tooling. It is a hard steel to sharpen and people have been talking about this for yeas. Once 440 gets sharp it will hold an amazing edge, but don't let it get dull or you'll spend along time getting the edge back.
 
That's one of the reasons (price being the other) that I never bought a Buck back in the day. When I was knife shopping, the old guy at the hardware store told me that the Bucks were great knives but were a real b***h for the average joe to sharpen because the steel was so hard.
 
73. It depends of the spacers and edge profile as to what steel your two models have. Can you divulge to us the space count? DM
 
Yes, I agree 440C is a hard steel to sharpen. Plus, it's edge profile compounds this equation and creates other factors. Razor, you make a good point about a convexed edge. DM
 
Looks like Group 4 one micarta and two aluminum on the guard. On micarta and one aluminum on the pommel. May not be 440Cs as is my 110 is but it took a lot of sharpening on my DMT aligner sharpener using course and fine on it, which is unusual. It does have the flap style sheath. I bought it from a hardware store at the time and thought it was late 70's but it's been a long time ago. The store had just t penned in the price on the box, $21.00 and it's still there.
 
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winchester73 said:
Looks like Group 4 one micarta and two aluminum on the guard. On micarta and one aluminum on the pommel. May not be 440Cs as is my 110 is but it took a lot of sharpening on my DMT aligner sharpener using course and fine on it, which is unusual. It does have the flap style sheath. I bought it from a hardware store at the time and thought it was late 70's but it's been a long time ago. The store had just t penned in the price on the box, $21.00 and it's still there.
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Yes, given that it's a group 4, it should be 425M. Since 1980 was supposed to be the last year for 440C there's a possiblity that there were still left overblades of 440C that didn't get the message and were used in '81.
 
Those of Group 4 most likely have 425M steel. A very good steel, between 440C and 420. One and one spacers, these models should have a full hollow grind and be easier to sharpen than the knives of Group 3. They also cut better when sharpened ( group 4). Group 3 is where I see 440C steel knives and they also have the thick edge profiles. One and two spacer models can have either steel. I have one of these and it has 440C steel. Hope this helps. Knives of Group 3 and 4 will have the same stamp, it's the spacers and grind that distinguishes them and it's steel. DM
 
YEs, Plumber, I agree with your post #15 as I've noticed that occurance. You posted while I was writing. The dates are an attempt to define. What occured within that date is not so definate. DM
 
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