Help picking Edge Pro grit progression for s90v and 154cm please.

B

beady

Joined
Mar 8, 2006
Messages
28
Hello,

I’ve got an Edge Pro Apex and would like to buy some new stones for it. Currently I only have the original EP 220 and 320 grit stones.

I have two Benchmade knives with 154cm steel currently, and a 940-1 with s90v on the way, and I also sharpen my Henckels kitchen knives. I figure I need to get some new stones to be able to sharpen the s90v as it takes me a while to sharpen the 154cm with what I have now (and I struggle to get the edges as sharp as I want). I’m interested in a good everyday edge; I EDC one of the Benchmades daily and use it for little stuff like peeling apples, opening boxes and packaging, etc.

I was hoping to buy 3 stones now and then perhaps add some more stones later if needed. After doing a lot of reading and asking a couple vendors I’m having a hard time finding consistent information on what 3 stones would be a good starting point for me. I was thinking of getting two Atomas and a Shapton or 150 Nubatama maybe? Something like:

Atoma 150
Atoma 600(or 400)
Shapton Glass 2K

or

Atoma 150
Bamboo 150
Atoma 1200

or

Atoma 400
Atoma 1200
Shapton Glass ?K

Maybe Atoma 150/400/1200?

Ugh.

I plan on picking up a drill collar and angle cube at the same time so I can get repeatable results.

Thanks for any thoughts, experiences, input, etc.

Mike
 
154cm is no problem for most quality stones but the S90V is about as wear resistant as they come.

The only set you have listed that makes any sence is the 140/400/1200 atoma plates.
 
Jason B. said:
154cm is no problem for most quality stones but the S90V is about as wear resistant as they come.

The only set you have listed that makes any sence is the 140/400/1200 atoma plates.
Click to expand...

Would the 400 or 600 Atoma be more useful for the middle grit?

Thanks,

Mike
 
Watched a couple of vids of people using that collar for switching stones.
I ordered two of those bad boys!
I cant believe that the Edge Pro doesn't already come with them...
 
If you can't get the 154cm blade sharp, I'd suggest that you spend more time learning the ins and outs of the Edge Pro. 154 shouldn't be a problem with the stock stones as far as I know. You should be able to get phonebook paper slicing edges with some push cutting ability also.

Brian.
 
My two go-to sharpeners are the Edge Pro Apex and the Spyderco Sharpmaker. I have used them for many years successfully with the stock stones/rods. If I get a knife so badly dulled that it needs serious reprofiling I find it easier to use a metal file to carefully rough out the back bevel and then reprofile the back bevel to about 30 degrees total and the sharpen the primary bevel to about 40 degrees. This gives me a good EDC edge for 95% of my knife usage. If I need a razor edge I buy a razor.

Here are several good Youtube videos that describe the process for the Edge Pro and the Sharpmaker that may be of some help to those getting into serious knife sharpening.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fI9ae283-Ns

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GB0r6GvESGg

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-MHe_8wTHmg
 
Just .02 more Lincolns for your consideration.... I'm not sure that you'd need to go as low as 150 unless you are needing to re-profile the bevel. For general maintenance sharpening I'd start at 220 or so...no reason to take that much metal off your blade unless it's been damaged or you want a different bevel. If I were limiting it to three, I'd go 220, 400, 1000 and a stroping if desired (otherwise debur with the rod). I'm not familiar with the stones you reference, but these are from the stock EP stones. For a "good everyday edge" you really don't need to polish it beyond deburring (which you can do with the rod)....above 1K is in polishing territory. Looks pretty slick and I guess it helps if you like to do paper spaghetti demos on YouTube. I don't know that a polished edge is the best general use edge though...certainly not as good for slicing up food.
 
Jason B. said:
154cm is no problem for most quality stones but the S90V is about as wear resistant as they come.

The only set you have listed that makes any sence is the 140/400/1200 atoma plates.
Click to expand...

Will topping out at 1200 leave a decent edge on teh s90v?

Thanks.
 
bgentry said:
If you can't get the 154cm blade sharp, I'd suggest that you spend more time learning the ins and outs of the Edge Pro. 154 shouldn't be a problem with the stock stones as far as I know. You should be able to get phonebook paper slicing edges with some push cutting ability also.

Brian.
Click to expand...

I can get the 154cm sharp, just not as sharp as I think I should be able to. I can get and edge that slices printer paper (haven’t tried phone book), but it has some catches, etc on the edge still. I can still touch the edge lightly without being in fear of cutting myself.

I’ve had the stones for ~6 years and I think I have loaded them up to where they don’t cut very well anymore. When sharpening they feel like they aren’t cutting in the center of the stone, only near the far ends or if I apply pressure to one side of the stone does it “feel” (and sound) like it’s doing much.

I’m thinking the 400/1200 would help give me a finer edge (and I know they will cut since they are new).

Mike
 
S90V is no joke. I definitely recommend the Atomas. If your only going to get 3 then get the 140 , 400 and 1200.

Can you get a serviceable edge off the 1200? You bet you can. Super toothy and coarse , but if you take your time to deburr on the stone then you can really throw some hairs , even off the 140.

Heres the 1200 after deburring on the plate itself , no stropping at all.


Using this method.
[video=youtube;j032eLxxhzc]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j032eLxxhzc[/video]

I would not rely on the 400 for stock removal. The other 3 plates are not as durable as the 140 , and if you are too rough with them you can rip out the diamonds , just like any other diamond plate.

Still , I prefer something a little more refined. 0.1u @ 12.5 dps S90V Spyderco/Phil Wilson Southfork
 
Sadden said:
S90V is no joke. I definitely recommend the Atomas. If your only going to get 3 then get the 140 , 400 and 1200.

Can you get a serviceable edge off the 1200? You bet you can. Super toothy and coarse , but if you take your time to deburr on the stone then you can really throw some hairs , even off the 140.

Heres the 1200 after deburring on the plate itself , no stropping at all.


Using this method.
[video=youtube;j032eLxxhzc]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j032eLxxhzc[/video]

I would not rely on the 400 for stock removal. The other 3 plates are not as durable as the 140 , and if you are too rough with them you can rip out the diamonds , just like any other diamond plate.

Still , I prefer something a little more refined. 0.1u @ 12.5 dps S90V Spyderco/Phil Wilson Southfork
Click to expand...

Thanks for chiming in, I had seen your videos on Youtube while searching for info. Once I get my edge dialed in should I be able to use the 1200 to touch it up once in a while to keep a good edge without a lot of work? Ow will I need to drop back to the 400 and then the 1200 again?

If I want to go higher than 1200 what stones would you recommend for the s90v?

Mike
 
Depends on how badly degraded the edge is. But generally the 1200 should be plenty.

If you wanna go finer then first you have to go coarser. Nubatama 150 or Shapton 220. From there its Shaptons or hard Nubatamas such as the ones Jason uses. Depends how fine you wanna go as well. Super refined like the one I showed above needs lots of time and patience , and I enhance my shaptons with CBN , then strop on Nanocloth with Poly Diamond.
 
Sadden said:
Depends on how badly degraded the edge is. But generally the 1200 should be plenty.

If you wanna go finer then first you have to go coarser. Nubatama 150 or Shapton 220. From there its Shaptons or hard Nubatamas such as the ones Jason uses. Depends how fine you wanna go as well. Super refined like the one I showed above needs lots of time and patience , and I enhance my shaptons with CBN , then strop on Nanocloth with Poly Diamond.
Click to expand...

One last thing, does the answer change if I ask a different way? :) Say I want to stay below ~$250 for stones (and an angle cube), what would you recommend? That’s pretty much 3 Atoma’s, which is fine. But, maybe 1 or 2 Atoma’s and several Shaptons would be better? Or maybe I should just concentrate on one grit area like a finer progression between 220-600, etc?

Thanks again, I really appreciate your input. Failing anything else I plan on going with the Atoma 150-400-1200 at this point.

Mike
 
jeffbird said:
Congress Tool Moldmaster stones work very well on my Phil Wilson knives including V10 up to Rc 66. They make the Henckels kitchen knives seem like they are made out of butter.

220, 300, 400, and 600 handle most everything and finish them off with a EP 1000. Way less expensive too.

http://www.congresstools.com/catalog/categories/get-subcategory/?id=27

Thanks to Ankerson for putting me onto them.
Click to expand...

Looks like you need to by blanks and glue the stones on if you go this route?
 
No, the stones fit in the holder just fine by themselves, which also allows both sides to be used.

Just order them the same size as the EP stones.

However, Phil Wilson recommended and I have found to be true that a 400 or 600 grit is enough and really works fine for a knife that is really going to be used as opposed to showing off mirror edges.

Take the EP 1000 stone, raise the angle about 1 - 2 degrees, i.e. 1/2 of the distance between marks on the EP, and lightly work it on the edge. It works just like a strop to finish the edge.

That should produce an excellent everyday user edge even for the kitchen knives.

For going beyond that, the EP tapes on the glass blank work very nicely for a very low cost. The EP 1000 stone followed by the 3000 and 6000 tapes can produce an extremely sharp edge. Again, raise them 1 - 2 degrees above the angle used on the 600. It will not produce a mirror edge, but will produce a hair popping sharp edge. Anything beyond that is for entertainment and challenge rather than an everyday user edge.

You might also order a few 150's in case you have to profile some edges. The 150 and 240 are pretty soft and wear quickly, but they are so cheap, flip them over, and once cupped just pitch them.

Make sure to soak them in water with a drop or two of dish soap in a tall cup for about 20 minutes before starting.
 
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Though it may seem to work, Silicon carbide stones are not actually hard enough to properly cut through the very hard vanadium carbides. With a Knoop hardness of 2480 and a vanadium carbide hardness of 2660 you can see why Diamond at 7000 is the much better choice.

With 180 points of difference the Silicon carbide is is hardly capable of grinding through the hard carbides in the steel resulting in an inferior edge. It will sharpen it, but there will be a lot of wasted energy in the process and obtaining proper levels of sharpness will be difficult at best.
 
Jason B. said:
Though it may seem to work, Silicon carbide stones are not actually hard enough to properly cut through the very hard vanadium carbides. With a Knoop hardness of 2480 and a vanadium carbide hardness of 2660 you can see why Diamond at 7000 is the much better choice.

With 180 points of difference the Silicon carbide is is hardly capable of grinding through the hard carbides in the steel resulting in an inferior edge. It will sharpen it, but there will be a lot of wasted energy in the process and obtaining proper levels of sharpness will be difficult at best.
Click to expand...
How about the waterstones that come with the EP? I have reprofiled and sharpened my Spyderco PW Southfork (S90V), and put a polished edge on it (for fun), and the edge looks clean under 100x magnification, and it was relatively quick. This looks to me as one of those things that theoretically shouldn't work, but it seemed to work for me.

Would a diamond plate have been quicker/better? Ceramic?
 
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