help picking new diamond stones

bearfacedkiller

bearfacedkiller

Joined
Jan 23, 2014
Messages
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I currently sharpen on a sharpmaker and on Spyderco bench stones. When I have to do any reprofiling or major repairs I have been using sandpaper wrapped around a block of steel. I have been doing it this way for years and am done with the sandpaper. It is time to upgrade. I have a knife that needs some heavy reprofiling and people bring me knives all the time that they want sharpened that actually need to be repaired. I am looking to make an upgrade in my sharpening gear, especially on the coarsest end. I can get my knives hair whittling sharp with what I have now and the Spyderco stones are working well even on multiple knives in S110V, ZDP, 204P and the like. I have been looking at the EZE-Lap double sided stones. They offer grits of 150, 250, 400, 600 and 1200. I am thinking of picking up two of these and keep going back and forth on which grit to leave out. I have used DMT pocket sharpeners in 325, 600 and 1200 so I am familiar with them. I bought the credit card three pack and used them a bunch. I know I want something more aggressive than that 325 DMT or the sharpmakers diamonds which are supposed to be around 400. I keep going back and forth on what combo to get and I haven't used either the 150 or 250 or any other diamond stone that coarse so am unsure just how coarse they are. I do want to be able to repair knives in addition to reprofiling.

If I have the 150 can I just stop before I apex and go right to the 400 and finish apexing and skip the 250? Will I want the 250 for some reprofiling or will the 150 and 400 be plenty?

They come in any combo so does it make sense to not get a 150/250 and a 400/600 but rather get a 150/600 and a 400/1200 and then use the 400/1200 when i need to grab a single stone for travel and field sharpening? Would a 400/1200 be the most versatile and would that be reason enough to skip one of the lower grits? Does a different combo make more sense as a single stone to grab and go? I currently carry a DMT 325 pocket stone and a Spyderco doublestuff together as my travel kit but having a single bench stone to grab could be nice.

Do I really need the 1200 or should I just get the 150, 250, 400 and 600 and then go to the Spyderco ceramics from there?


Sorry for being so scattered. I am trying to type this with a baby climbing all over me. My final confusing question to clear things up. ;) What combination of four out of those five grits would you purchase if you were buying two double sided stones to compliment a full set of Spyderco bench stones and Sharpmaker rods with your goal being having the most versatility?
 
I just got a set of double-sided DMTs that are working very well for me. My stones are XC, C, F, and EF, and it is a very versatile range.

Be aware that the Eze-Lap stones are more aggressive than the DMTs at the same grit number. They use a combination of polycrystalline and monocrystalline diamonds, so it cuts more aggressively and takes longer to break in. I have the Eze-Lap 600 pocket stone, and it definitely leaves a coarser edge than DMT 600. If you go with them, you'll want the 1200 unless you like your edges pretty coarse.

I would think that, on steels like S110V, skipping grits could be a problem. It would probably be fine on low carbide steels, but on the high vanadium stuff, you might end up with coarse scratch patterns that won't polish out. Others here can speak better to that issue than I can.
 
bearfacedkiller said:
(...) I know I want something more aggressive than that 325 DMT or the sharpmakers diamonds which are supposed to be around 400. I keep going back and forth on what combo to get and I haven't used either the 150 or 250 or any other diamond stone that coarse so am unsure just how coarse they are. I do want to be able to repair knives in addition to reprofiling.

If I have the 150 can I just stop before I apex and go right to the 400 and finish apexing and skip the 250? Will I want the 250 for some reprofiling or will the 150 and 400 be plenty?

They come in any combo so does it make sense to not get a 150/250 and a 400/600 but rather get a 150/600 and a 400/1200 and then use the 400/1200 when i need to grab a single stone for travel and field sharpening? Would a 400/1200 be the most versatile and would that be reason enough to skip one of the lower grits? Does a different combo make more sense as a single stone to grab and go? I currently carry a DMT 325 pocket stone and a Spyderco doublestuff together as my travel kit but having a single bench stone to grab could be nice.

Do I really need the 1200 or should I just get the 150, 250, 400 and 600 and then go to the Spyderco ceramics from there?


Sorry for being so scattered. I am trying to type this with a baby climbing all over me. My final confusing question to clear things up. ;) What combination of four out of those five grits would you purchase if you were buying two double sided stones to compliment a full set of Spyderco bench stones and Sharpmaker rods with your goal being having the most versatility?
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I'd doubt you'd ever need anything coarser than 250 from EZE-LAP. It is true, EZE-LAP's hones are effectively coarser than DMT's at the same/similar grit rating, due to their use of polycrystalline diamond, vs DMT's monocrystalline diamond, which leaves a finer finish at the same rated grit. For example, EZE-LAP's '1200' seems as coarse as, or maybe even a little more coarse than, DMT's '600'. I have one of EZE-LAP's diafold style pocket hones in the 400 ('Medium') and 1200 ('UltraFine') combination. It does look as if it'd be a very versatile 'field' hone for repairs or maintaining good/excellent working edges.

To your question, if choosing 4 specific grits from EZE-LAP; I'd think the 250, 400, 600 and 1200 should serve you plenty well. For myself, I don't think I'd ever see much use for anything lower, like the 150, for KNIVES anyway. If in a large plate format, it could be quite useful as a lapping plate for other stones, however.


David
 
Having a very coarse stone is really useful for repairs and reprofiling. Of course, you need to be careful with a really coarse stone, but this is just like any other tool. Just pay attention and you'll do fine.

My experience with diamond stones is only with DMT. The DMT XXC is 120 micron or ~120 - 150 grit. If the EZLAP grinds like the XXC it will get a lot of work done and fast. The conventional wisdom is to separate your stones by double the grit rating or micron size. In practice, I've found that you can go 3x and more with no problems. I go through: XXC - > C -> EF . That corresponds to 120 micron -> 45 Micron -> 9 micron . The finish at the 9 micron level seems to be "pure" with no scratches left over from the previous stones.

I would jump straight from the 9 micron diamond over to the Spyderco medium (grey/brown) stone. That seems to be fairly comparable and the Spyderco ceramic will "transform" the deeper diamond scratch pattern into the spyderco ceramic pattern.

You can try to make some comparisons to the EZLAP stones based on their grit rating and using the grand unified grit chart to try to relate them together:

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/856708-The-Grand-Unified-Grit-Chart
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1VaTf3MXuwuvH-QLwOci4f9B9Zhkbuu1wjoSCZIUsR-o/edit#gid=0

Brian.
 
Thank a lot guys. This was super helpful. I am gonna go without the 150 then. If I need something like that later I will pick one up. Now I just need to decide if I should get the 250/400 and 600/1200 or the 250/600 and 400/1200. If they are more coarse than my DMT pocket stones then I think I will be better served with the 600/1200 as a travel stone and just leave the 250/400 at home for reprofiling. I do not like to let my knives get very dull so the 600/1200 should be all I need. I have carried both a DMT 325 and a DMT 600 with a Spyderco Doublestuff for backpacking and hunting. I have managed well with both and still don't really have a preference. I guess the 325 is a little quicker but I don't use my knives hard or let them get really dull. Quite often the Doublestuff is enough.

Thanks again!!!
 
Eze Lap 600 is definitely plenty coarse for a blade that is only slightly dull. Truthfully, you could use it to reprofile small pocket knife blades pretty easily.
 
The DMT XXC is an excellent tool for setting bevels and lapping waterstones. I have had mine for probably 8 years now and its still going strong, little duller than a new plate but considering I've used it to lap waterstones a few thousand times and ground a few thousand bevels it's doing good.

There is also the Atoma 140, I wore this one out in less than a year (probably using it in ways I shouldn't have) but it's cutting speed was amazing. Sounds like the heavy zipper of a Carhartt when using the Atoma and feels about the same but it's so fast none of that really matters.

So, there are my two choices and some of the most common among professionals.
 
Sounds good. I am gonna grab the EZE Lap 250/400 and 600/1200 in the 3x8 size and if I need a coarser stone I will look at the Atoma 140 or DMT XXC.

I recently bought a Spyderco Bradley Bowie and it came with a very obtuse angle (40+ degrees) and the edge isn't all that thin so that will be a big test. I prefer to run my bevels between 25 and 30 degrees depending on the application. I want to set this one at around 30 degrees and then run a 40 degree micro off the sharpmaker. I just reprofiled an equally obtuse Spyderco Street Beat like that with 200 grit w/d sandpaper and a block and it sucked. I am looking forward to the upgrade and I think these will compliment my Spyderco benchstones well. Thanks!!!!
 
Jason B. said:
The DMT XXC is an excellent tool for setting bevels and lapping waterstones. I have had mine for probably 8 years now and its still going strong, little duller than a new plate but considering I've used it to lap waterstones a few thousand times and ground a few thousand bevels it's doing good.

There is also the Atoma 140, I wore this one out in less than a year (probably using it in ways I shouldn't have) but it's cutting speed was amazing. Sounds like the heavy zipper of a Carhartt when using the Atoma and feels about the same but it's so fast none of that really matters.

So, there are my two choices and some of the most common among professionals.
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Could you lap a Shapton stone with the DMT XXC?
 
Daniel Rohde said:
Could you lap a Shapton stone with the DMT XXC?
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Yes, but...I would not go below a 320 grit waterstone because it can smooth the Glass stones and the Pro stones could cause serious damage to the plate because they are muddy. I would also recommend a nagura to smooth the texture of stones beyond 1000 grit because the coarse diamond plate can produce a rough texture.
 
i agree with Jason and owning all the 8x3 dmt diasharp plates and the large (i think its 8x3 or very close) Atoma 140 plate i can say they are all excellent. the Atoma is a true monster that voraciously eats steel and has been indespensible to me for setting a bevel angle--even more so than the xxc dmt...the dot matrix pattern of the diamonds makes short work of the thickest edges and very wear resistant steels like s110v, s90v, cpm m4, and 20cv...the Atoma is truly an equal opportunity eater.
 
bearfacedkiller said:
...Sorry for being so scattered. I am trying to type this with a baby climbing all over me...
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As a father of a toddler, I can totally relate to that!

I am not a sharpening expert, but I have been very happy with the DMT XC (220), C (325), F (600), and EF (1200). While much prefer using my KME and the diamond hones that came with it, I have done some freehand sharpening with my DMT handheld Diafold sharpeners. The XC has been able to take out chips and profile blades rather quickly, and the progression to C, F and EF works well for me. I have found the EEF stone to be a big jump / not do too much. However, that might be due to a lack of competence on my part.

I hope that helps. Good luck with your purchase.
 
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