Help Request: BRK "Essential"

K

kootenay joe

BANNED
Joined
Jan 30, 2015
Messages
1,566
Bark River makes a few small Fixed Blades intended for everyday carry. The "Essential" at 6.2" OAL is one of these.
I have been thinking of getting one but in no rush because there are a lot of these 'out there' on dealer sites and they are rather expensive. The steel is CPM M4 touted as a "super steel" and tempered to Rc 63-64 and said (by BRK) to edge hold very well.
I have just learned that the "Essential" is also available with CPM 20CV, also said to be a "super steel" with "outstanding edge holding".
The prices seem about the same so not a factor in choosing.
Does anyone have any real world experience with either or both of these steels ?
I am not really interested in the metallurgical description of their properties, just experience with using.
The Essential with M4 has been out for awhile so likely someone here has used one. Hope so.
kj
 
I've had 3 or 4 Essentials. Still have my stag / no bolster one. They are well made knives that perform as I expect my everyday FB to perform. I've used them since they came out and have never had an issue. They only thing that ever happened on one Essential was a bit of surface corrosion when I put it back in the sheath that I had just finished wet-forming to the knife. I didn't let it dry long enough and a couple of spots appeared on one side of the blade. I saw them the next morning and they were easy to remove.

The M4 does hold up very well to my everyday kinds of use (warehouse cutting, yard trimming, dog food bags, home & garage cutting). I've never damaged or even rolled an edge on my Essentials and they're fairly quick to touch up with strops after they're used. They also carry well with the angled cross-draw sheath that comes with them.

HTH...
 
Thanks Dale. You don't mention ergonomics, how it feels in hand, but i assume just fine or you would have mentioned it.
The M4 steel sounds like an excellent performer as a 'cuttin' machine'.
So why now change the steel to 20CV ?
Did some people have problems with the M4 in this knife ?
Obviously the person to ask is Mike Stewart. It might take someone he knows to get a straight answer. Maybe the dealers who frequent this forum know the reason for the change in steel ?
If they were less expensive i would buy 2 Essentials, one of each steel and then i could see for myself. But even 1 knife is expensive.
kj
 
I know that This thread will help. While not about traditional knives, it does get into the m4 vs cpm20v/m390 argument.

What I have noticed is:
ZT 0770cfM4
M4 holds a Great edge and Loves an edge finished in a 400 or 600 grit and then stropped. It doesn't hold much of a wire edge, and when it does get one, it isn't stubborn. I cut, on average, 200 feet of double walled cardboard and plast daily. Aside from a strop every other day, m4 holds up for about two weeks without sharpening, and even then it is little.

Benchmade 710-1401
M390/cpm 20v takes a Great edge as well, but where it excels is that it can hold a working edge longer due to the carbide content and it is more stain resistant. Burr formation is near nonexistent, but there none the less. Due to the fine nature of the carbides, you can take the edge thin (not as thin as a high hardness m4, mind you) and not worry about carbide tear out.

That being said, I sold my Benchmade 710-1401 and my M4 minigrip, kept my ZT and I have been looking at the m4 essential and another 710-1401.
Though the Benchmade 710-3 (M4) is a grail of mine.

Take them as the decision coming down to whether you want a blade that is stainless or not. Aside from that the differences are relatively nominal.
 
Last edited:
I performed side-by-side edge retention comparison testing on several blades a few years ago. An M4 blade and an M390 were included, but not a 20CV. The M4 and the M390 had about equal performance in edge retention and were head and shoulders better than any of the other alloys I tested.
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/s...PM-M4-HC-ZDP-189-M390-and-S30V-edge-retention

The M4 steel sounds like an excellent performer as a 'cuttin' machine'.
So why now change the steel to 20CV ?
Click to expand...
My assumption is that they wanted to provide a stainless option with equal edge retention.
 
Wow, Thank you NJB & knarf. I am amazed at how much can be discovered on this forum in a short amount of time.
I did not know that 20CV is grouped with the stainless steels. I think as Frank stated, getting out a stainless version is the reason for using this steel, rather than there being an issue with the M4.
I am equally happy with stainless and non stainless blades. I don't live near an ocean or rain forest.
Now, off to read Frank's edge retention posts
kj
 
I just read Frank's Edge Retention thread. I am assuming M390 is the same as 20CV. The testing shows M390 and M4 equally retain edge sharpness as both Frank and NJB have already said.
My decision as to which Essential i should buy can be based on the potential for oxidation, i.e. stainless 20CV or non stainless M4 which is what NJB has already said.
BRK gives Rc 63-64 for M4. I think the Rc for the 20CV is ~ 60. If this difference in hardness is correct, would edge retention still be the same ?
thanks, kj
 
If the stated HRC numbers are an accurate measurement, then one would expect the M4 to hold an edge longer while being able to take a stable but thinner and keener edge as well as less likely of a wire edge to worry about.
Iirc, 64hrc is about optimal to expect a factory to hit for M4. They landed right in its sweet spot.

The m390 being around 60 isn't a slouch, but I would expect there to be a difference, and likely a noticeable one.
M390, at stated hardness, would be easier to sharpen in the "field" and less likely to incur as much damage from unexpected hits (like cutting a rubber boot around plumbing black pipe and you hit it pretty hard). In that particular circumstance the m390 would likely roll vs a small chip on the M4. But shy of contacting another steel surface with force, the M4 should hold up just fine.

Hell, I just ran my ZT through the wash yesterday unintentionally and it had two small rolls that my ceramic rod took care of in about 30 secs.

Either way, you still can't go wrong. But it does reinforce my preference for the M4 over the others.
 
NJBillK, thanks for the help, i very much appreciate it.
"Either way, you still can't go wrong. But it does reinforce my preference for the M4 over the others"
There's my decision. I will buy the M4 Essential.
kj
 
kootenay joe said:
I just read Frank's Edge Retention thread. I am assuming M390 is the same as 20CV. The testing shows M390 and M4 equally retain edge sharpness as both Frank and NJB have already said.
My decision as to which Essential i should buy can be based on the potential for oxidation, i.e. stainless 20CV or non stainless M4 which is what NJB has already said.
BRK gives Rc 63-64 for M4. I think the Rc for the 20CV is ~ 60. If this difference in hardness is correct, would edge retention still be the same ?
thanks, kj
Click to expand...

On paper, M390 and 20CV have the same composition. But the processing of PM alloys is much more complicated than that of melt alloys. The end properties are dependent on the processing as well as the composition. (You have to make the powders, blend them, then HIP (hot isostatic press) the powder into ingots. The properties you get are partially dependent on the different particle sizes you make, the blending technique, and the pressing technique.) So it is not a given that just because they have the same composition, they have the same performance.

If you change the hardness, you change the edge retention properties.
In my comparison, the M4 was 62 and the M390 was 60.5. I measured them myself on the same hardness tester. If the M4 on the Bark River is 64, I would expect the edge to last longer than the blade that I tested. So in this case, the M4 Bark River might outperform M390 (and 20CV might have the same performance as M390).

However, at the end of the day, my opinion is that in comparison to any of the alloys commonly used in traditional knives, these are roughly equivalent in edge retention. And they are so far beyond the performance of normal traditional knife alloys that either one will blow your socks off.
 
Thanks Frank for this encouragement. Now i think i need to buy one of each !:D
Actually i will get the M4.
There are all the variables you state above, as well as the heat treatment of the blade, lots of opportunity for a mistake to occur, so the real test for me is someone's experience using the knife.
In post 2 above dalefuller says he has had "3 or 4 Essentials", all with M4 and the edge holds up well(as expected) and "never damaged or even rolled an edge on my Essentials and they're fairly quick to touch up with strops after they're used."
The Essential with 20CV has just been released so no experience available yet and i don't want to wait a year to find out.
kj
 
This isn't the first time BRK has used 20cv. I think you'd be very happy with this new knife. I like it for being a stainless steel. You won't get the same edge retention as the M4 but it will be easier to sharpen.
 
Just arrived:



Bark River markets the "Essential" as the ultimate small EDC knife. With this knife in hand i have to agree.
Most of my smaller FB's are thinly ground slicers but not this one. The blade has a convex grind so there is quite a thickness of steel just above the edge, which is shaving sharp. This M4 has an Rc of about 64. This is a tough knife. If this was about dog breeds, it is the English Bulldog.
I am looking forward to putting this to real world use around my property.
The belt sheath has 3 ways that a belt could be threaded through it. I don't understand why, maybe someone here does ?







And this is how the Essential sits into the sheath (nice and tight too)



The only 'drawback' is that it is expensive, close to custom level for a respected knife maker.
Thanks for the advice given when i began this thread. The result is i now have this great knife and i am very pleased that i do.
kj
 
kootenay joe said:
Just arrived:



Bark River markets the "Essential" as the ultimate small EDC knife. With this knife in hand i have to agree.
Most of my smaller FB's are thinly ground slicers but not this one. The blade has a convex grind so there is quite a thickness of steel just above the edge, which is shaving sharp. This M4 has an Rc of about 64. This is a tough knife. If this was about dog breeds, it is the English Bulldog.
I am looking forward to putting this to real world use around my property.
The belt sheath has 3 ways that a belt could be threaded through it. I don't understand why, maybe someone here does ?







And this is how the Essential sits into the sheath (nice and tight too)



The only 'drawback' is that it is expensive, close to custom level for a respected knife maker.
Thanks for the advice given when i began this thread. The result is i now have this great knife and i am very pleased that i do.
kj
Click to expand...

Dat C-Tek :eek: Lovely.
 
Congrats! Looks to me like it could be vertical carry or diagonal carry. Look how the slots line up. In the first belt pic, the sheath would ride straight up and down.

~Jim

kootenay joe said:
Just arrived:

The belt sheath has 3 ways that a belt could be threaded through it. I don't understand why, maybe someone here does ?







kj
Click to expand...
 
Jim, thanks, i can see now that the slots are for upright or canted carry. I should of figured that out myself !
kj
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top