Help Selecting a Khukri - Turns into my review of first HI

[Brian Andrews]

I am a knifemaker and have been making knives for quite awhile. I have only recently started to have interest in khukri’s. While I know I could make one I am more interested in seeing/using ones made by the local people where they originated from and are used. Not only for the coolness factor, but to see what elements they put into the tool and why.

With that in mind, I swore I only wanted on Khukri, and that would be enough. I was torn between two companies, HI and Tora. A model popped into the Tora store that I wanted, and I bought. Overall, I am happy with it. I changed the edge geometry in places and really tuned it up to the way I use it. Performance wise, it is great, but later this summer I will do a re-handling job on it as I am not all that happy with an aspect of the handle. But….I am getting off topic

Even though I swore I only wanted one…..I am looking at another. My Tora is a 17.5” WWII model.

I am leaning towards getting something more like a HI Sirupati. I realize chopping performance will be decreased, but I don’t think chopping dead, dry wood is all that efficient. I use mine more for crafting and green wood, so I can accept the change for a lighter, faster, thinner? Khukri.

I want one a bit larger than the one I currently have. Looking at the Sirupati’s it came down to the 18” and 20”. 18” was too close to what I have, so I decided on the 20” if I were to get one. Ideally, I want something around 19” overall, so I felt better to go on the long side (it is not like these things are for ultra light backpacking ).

I kind of figured I was done, with my mind made up. Then, I started reading about the Gelbu Special. Now….that is sounding nice!!! I think that is what I am looking for. Problem here is that it comes in 18” (which I felt was a tad too short) and 21 inch (I felt 20 was already pushing my limits).

So, I wanted to see if you guys had any thoughts on these 3: 21” Gelbu, versus 18” Gelbu, versus 20” Sirupate?

Any suggestions would be appreciated.

Thanks,
Brian

 

[Dirtbiker]

You can order a gelbu in any length you wish. Yangdu usually has 18 and 21 inch models in stock.

I own more than 20 Himalayan Imports blades and 1 Tora if that tells you anything.

 

[Bawanna]

Personally when you get in the 16" and up class an inch or even two really goes unnoticed.

These things are sooooo habit forming one or two will never be enough. My hats off to you for our research efforts and trying to pick the perfect blade but I think a therapist would say your arguing within yourself (rightfully so in my opinion) and will end up with more than one.

No need to ask me how I know this as visiting numerous times a day and looking forward to each and every Deal of the Day is a addiction trademark.

All that being said, if your dead set on 19", I'm sure Auntie can have one made up just for you if your patient and can survive the wait.

I wish you good luck on your path to the perfect khuk.

 

[Brian Andrews]

These things are sooooo habit forming one or two will never be enough. My hats off to you for our research efforts and trying to pick the perfect blade but I think a therapist would say your arguing within yourself (rightfully so in my opinion) and will end up with more than one.

HAHA! I hear you for sure. I would definitely like to own more than a couple. I am not saying I don't WANT to own many, I simply can't. It comes down to a matter of money. I can't justify spending that much. In fact, I am having a very hard time with purchasing a second, and it may not even happen.

Still, your input is great. Thanks!

Brian

 

[iliam]

Hello, Brian.
Just curious, what is the problem with the handle on your WW2?
It's funny, but I also have a kuk from Tora, that forced me to spend MANY hours on its handle. The wooden scales started wobbling, before I even had a chance to put it to work. I had to drill the rivets out (its a full tang "Camping" model), clean the surfaces from rust and then put it all back together, using new rivets and epoxy. Tora customer service is non-existent, pretty much, so I just did it myself...
That was more than 2 years ago, and now I have that case of kukuri fever again, so... I decided to go with the HI this time around.

 

[Bigfattyt]

I would say go with the model you initially wanted, and if necessary, get the longer. When in doubt, go bigger on large knives. Honestly, if the 21 inch is too long, the 19 would be the same.

 

[Brian Andrews]

Hi Iliam,

Personally, I considered the size of this "fill" in the handle unacceptable:



Besides this big one, there were also a couple small other ones.



And....



To their defense, I was offered a refund. But, with international shipping both ways it was easier to turn this one into a "project." After I did some modifications on the grinds, I am very happy with the performance, just not the handle. It is destined to have issues. I make knives, so re-handling will not be a problem. It is just something I didn't want to do at this price point.

The other sad thing is that before I ordered this, I told the owner that my intentions were to do a magazine article on khukris for bushcraft use. I was REALLY excited about it, but once I received it, it just took all the winds out of my sails. I will still like to do the article, and perhaps turn it in to a multi-part series of articles, but the inspiration is just not there at the moment, mostly to do with the khukri I have

B

 

[iliam]

Brian,
that looks pretty bad! Seems like an "emergency" treatment before shipment, and an ugly one at that. I my case everything looked great, except that the laha (glue) completely dried up (maybe bad storage?), and the tang inside was corroded. Also, the rivets were too small for the holes made for them in the handle, so they scales wobbled. Of course, to see all that one had to take the knife apart, so I don't want to blame anyone.

In regards to your original question, I think a step up to a 20-21 inch Siru is not going to be all that drastic. My 17 in kuk already started feeling too small after about a month. I feel that the total weight and point of balance are more important, than the sheer length of a kukhuri.

 

[Dirtbiker]

I own both a 21 inch gelbu and a 20 inch sirupate. I would take the gelbu for wood processing and the sirupate for machete type tasks.

My gelbu is 34oz and my sirupate is only 23oz.

My favorite chopper of the all is my 18 inch 36oz bonecutter.

 

[Brian Andrews]

I own both a 21 inch gelbu and a 20 inch sirupate. I would take the gelbu for wood processing and the sirupate for machete type tasks.

My gelbu is 34oz and my sirupate is only 23oz.

My favorite chopper of the all is my 18 inch 36oz bonecutter.

Hi Dirtbiker,

Thank you. This feedback was invaluable. When I selected my first khukri, I was paying attention to everything. This time around. I was just looking at shape and length, and totally ignored the weight. My fault. There is quite a significant difference between the gelbu and the sirupati, and your feedback has me leaning towards the sirupati. I will come back to that in a minute.

I own more than 20 Himalayan Imports blades and 1 Tora if that tells you anything.

I hear you, and I totally understand. Quality was honestly my biggest concern when choosing the Tora, and I honestly feel like I got burned on it. This may not be the most popular thing to say here in the HI forum, but I would like to in order to get your feedback and see what you think. I originally chose a Tora because I think that their designs more closely replicate the originals, especially in terms of thickness. For some reason HI (and others) seem like they have gone overboard on the thickness to me and I know how much of an effect that can have on overall performance. I kind of feel like I am being forced into my second choice because of the bad experience I had with my first

Here are my thoughts on the thinner khukri, and my reason for leaning towards the sirupati.

I hope you guys take this the way I am intending.....a means to strike up some intelligent conversation with some highly experienced people. I am not trying to say "This is what is right and I want you to agree with me " We all know that it is all personal preference and there is no such thing as the right answer. These are just my thoughts.

I have been into restoring axes and custom axes for a long time. All shapes, sizes and lengths. For myself and the things I do in the woods, I have come to the conclusion that smaller axes and large knives are fairly poor choppers in general. There are a million chop off demos of knives, axes, khukris out there, but they are usually a timed event, or a single log and really do not represent any realistic situations.

When it comes to warmer weather months, I have come to the conclusion that I don't need a chopper of any sorts. I can generally gather dry wood. If not, a small knife and some skill and I can get some. When you get into larger dead and dried wood it is more efficient to break it between two trees that to try and chop all of it. When wood becomes too large to break, it is too big to deal with either that way or trying to chop it. Chopping may work for a log or two, but it is so much work it is not worth the effort for large fires. I would rather let the fire do the work, and burn through larger logs.

With concerns of the "what if" scenarios in warmer weather, and shelter building and all that, I would ditch the dead wood scenario all together, unless there were manageable piece close by, and go for green wood. A small knife and a baton can handle green wood without a problem and after all, energy conservation would be the goal there. I would recommend just harvesting green wood for shelter building any time you felt like it, but again, that is a true "what if" type of event.

When I winter camp, and put up a LOT of wood for a larger fire (or go without a shelter) I want at least a 26" axe, and preferably a full sized axe. I have not seen any type of large knife or khukri that chop like that (although I have honestly never used the sword length khukri's either). My point being there is that I don't think a sub-20" khukri would be able to chop like a full sized axe in those scenarios, so that is not what I am personally shopping for.

At this point, it may seem like I am putting large knives and khukri's down. But, obviously I like them, so that is not the case. Once you get past the point of "I don't need one" they come into play in two ways. 1) They are very fun and 2) They are great crafting tools.

With the Khukri I have, I can harvest some green wood, process it fast, make points with chops (instead of carving with a knife), make notches very quickly with cross chops (again without much carving) and can just make stuff really efficiently. And that is why I like them!

For those situations, pure chopping performance is not always on the top of my list, like it seem to be for many others. I am looking for a length I want, weight I want, and a "handling" peformance to be able to do all of those things accurately and fast.

Since there is no way I could afford to buy 20, 10, or even 5....it would be really nice to be able to just try tons of them all together, side by side Since that is not going to happen, I just have to try and figure out based on past experience what will work for what I am looking for.

The input you guys gave is great, and I appreciate it all. It is very helpful.

Thanks,
Brian

 

[Dirtbiker]

Funny thing is that just recently I received a GAK from that other maker we were talking about. Now I already own a late 1800s kukri that the GAK is modeled after. While the blade profile is correct the thickness isn't even close. The original is almost 1/2 thick near the bolster with a significant distal taper to the tip. The new blade is 1/4 inch from bolster to near tip, almost no distal taper at all. Overall construction was ok, none of the problems you had but not the quality level I was expecting given the price point

Buy HI, you won't be dissapointed.

 

[JayGoliath]

Hi Brian,

I went through many models and found that each of them are unique. You will have to try several models to know which one suits you best.
Weight is certainly an important point to me because i don't want to carry a knife with an already heavy pack in the jungle and having to use them on slippery uphill and downhill slopes.

I wouldn't have fancied Siru but it's one of the best models for my needs of light sweeps through over-grown ferns and branches. The other khuk that means a lot to me is my first HI, the 12" Salyan model with a new handle from the talented Hung in Vietnam. It's a compact khuk that does most things well.

I only intend to keep one Tora with me, the Havildar model.

 

[sweetcostarica]

Regarding Mr Andrews pictures of the Kukri I must say that product is poor indeed! And Brian should get a refund. But here is the rub, everyone knows the situation in Nepal and the problems with handmade Kukris from there. The art of Kukri making is fading away as the modern world and foreign influences are changing the Nepali culture. Controlling and directing a Kami in making his best blade everytime from long distance is a Science. The shortages of power, material, and manpower is overwhelming to a business person trying to make a quality product. ALL Kukri manufactures in Nepal have quality control issues. Himalayan Imports (HI) and Tora Blades (Tora) have the best quality control. And I know for a fact that the quality control issues with the above Kukri has been eradicated.


I am a hiker and camper so ounces are counted and the goal of every outdoors person who's a survivor is to learn to do everything you need to with a 4 inch knife and then to do almost everything with just your hands (this is too extreme for me). Of course having edged tools makes life easier and tasks done with maximum productivity with minimum wasted effort. My favorite outdoors tool is a handsaw for it's quickness, efficiency, and energy savings.

Quote: "Ok, I'm a Ka-Bar kinda guy I was brought up to believe Bigger, Stronger, Heavier = Better! Well I'm here to tell you thats wrong...." This is an average American idea that basically bigger is better. I, like him do not agree with this anymore now that we know more and have much better tools at our disposal.

Presently, I have four (4) Tora Kukris and three (3) HI Kukris. I sold all of my Kukris over 24 ounces because as Jay Goliath said "Weight is certainly an important point to me because i don't want to carry a knife with an already heavy pack" The lightweight axe (also called hatchet or belt axe) has replaced my heavier Kukris. Note: If a person winter camps for a period of time without a large axe they are (weak minded, nuts, loco, insane, crackers, not the sharpest tool in the shed) _________, well you fill in the blank.


If you ask yourself: "What do I want to do with my Kukri?" then you will have your answer on which to get. Simple logic - everything's a compromise: splitter = wide/thick blade; great chopper = heavier blade; camping/hiking tool = lighter blade; Fighting weapon = lighter balanced blade; etc.

Lastly, all the Kukri manufacturers make lemons because of what was said above and a few other reasons. But very few make the highest quality ones on a consistent level and those Kukris that are made correctly are truly amazing tools.

Above is a military Kukri (not quite MK3 but similar style). Photo by sta94

 

[sweetcostarica]

Funny thing is that just recently I received a GAK from that other maker we were talking about. Now I already own a late 1800s kukri that the GAK is modeled after. While the blade profile is correct the thickness isn't even close...

Gurkha Army Kukris (GAK) are not the best representatives of the average all round Kukri as the early military blades were made to be heavy-duty which meant they weighed much more. They were meant to chop the campfire wood everyday which meant they were very thick. I think the Kukri you received Dirtbiker is a compromise that needed to be made so you could: 1. carry it without your pants falling down and 2. Use it for other things besides splitting wood.

Below photo by samkarki12

The above picture shows the progression of the military Kukri from large blade to today's small blade (basically a camp knife). The bigger/thicker GAK is not in the picture though.

 

[Brian Andrews]

And I know for a fact that the quality control issues with the above Kukri has been eradicated.

Wow!!! That is quite a strong statement!!! Even if I were able to inspect each individually, I would not be willing to make such a strong statement with regard to their future quality.

While I am more that open to everyone having differing opinions and don't feel the need to argue over silly stuff, I feel that this statement can be highly misleading to future customers. Normally I would not do this, but now I feel I have to offer my opposing opinion so future customers can be as educated as possible.

I know you have been following the current state of affairs, with Kami's, shops, etc. So have I. I also have some personal correspondence which has lead be to further conclusions, and I will share that is well.

While it is your opinion that this issue has been eradicated, my opinion is that buying a Tora is still a crap shoot. Here is why:

Point 1

I don’t have to make it. You made it yourself. The state of affairs and the conditions in Nepal make it difficult to “guarantee” anything.

Regarding Mr Andrews pictures of the Kukri I must say that product is poor indeed! And Brian should get a refund. But here is the rub, everyone knows the situation in Nepal and the problems with handmade Kukris from there. The art of Kukri making is fading away as the modern world and foreign influences as changing the Nepali culture. Controlling and directing a Kami in making his best blade everytime from long distance is a Science. The shortages of power, material, and manpower is overwhelming to a business person trying to make a quality product. ALL Kukri manufactures in Nepal have quality control issues.

Point 2

I have been watching Tora for awhile. My khukri came from their latest batch of product. It is the latest representation of the product being delivered.

With that in mind, the product I have is from a Kami that is being phased out. But, here is the real rub. To me, it does not matter what the Kami produces. Once it gets in the hand of Simon he has the ability to make the decision whether or not the quality is up to his standards. It is all on him at that point and he has the option to “ship it” or “not to ship it.”

In my opinion, at that point, all the points about working conditions, state of affairs, available resources ALL go out the window. Why? Because everything is now in his control. It is up to him to look at a khukri and decide “Does this represent Tora quality? Or does it not?” Not hide behind arguments and justifications for poor quality.

When I sent the photos and request for a refund to Simon, he gave all the arguments you gave. All the justifications on why the quality was where it was at along with a challenge for Western smiths to do better. All irrelevant in my opinion.

Where am I going with this? I know Tora is working with new Kami’s. I know their new samples submitted look exceptional. As to my knowledge, none of these samples have been made available to the public. So, it is bewildering to me how someone can make such a statement, with such conviction and potentially misguide a lot of people.


The work of these new Kami’s may be exceptional. It may last for decades. It may last for two weeks. They could get complacent, bored, quit and replaced again. The reason I am more skeptical that you are is that in the end, Simon is the quality control for Tora. His e-mails to me (of which I still have) indicated that the level of quality I received is acceptable. While he did agree to a refund (which is admirable) he did not agree with me on my level of quality expectation at the price I paid. Meaning, things with the new Kami’s could change, I am quite certain the the incident with my particular Khukri did not change Simon’s mindset toward quality control in the least. In six months, someone could come along and read this thread, and Kami's could have changed over three times by then. Hence my opinion, regardless of what delivery comes next from their new Kami's.......Tora is going to be a crap shoot.

I didn’t even want to bring this all up. I just felt that once that statement was made, I had to offer my side. If someone is doing research on a purchase, they need to know what they are getting into. Even though my opinion, is still just that.....an opinion.....I feel that my recent incident has allowed me access to some facts not available to the general public and has allowed me to be objective what to expect from them in the future.

I placed an order with HI today. I got a phone call that the one I ordered was not in stock. So, I will be waiting a few weeks to see what a HI is all about.

B

 

[sweetcostarica]

Wow!!! That is quite a strong statement!!! Even if I were able to inspect each individually, I would not be willing to make such a strong statement with regard to their future quality...

I made that statement and stand behind it because I have had a total of twelve (12) Kukris from the company in question and I know the man who has fixed the problem. I have always been treated fairly by him if I had a problem just like you have.

If you read my bold statement you will see I am talking about your Kukri, Kukris in that last batch, and the Kami that made it/them. I am not talking about the future Kami (s) work. No one can promise that their future product will be perfect especially with a new blacksmith. But replacing a problem Kami with a new Kami that does does better work is in my view fixing the quality control problem in the most extreme way.

So to be clearer: I know for a fact that the quality control issues with the above Kukri has been eradicated because:
"Tora is working with new Kami’s. I know their new samples submitted look exceptional." quote is taken from Mr. Andrews.

I must end this distasteful conversation because it is bad to discuss another Kukri manufacturer on the HI Forum. This was not my intention I just wanted to state all the facts of the quality control issue above. I will speak of this no further here.

 

[muddog15]

Consider the tang of the knife with whatever Kukri you buy.

 

[Brian Andrews]

Not too long ago, I started this thread and you guys gave me a lot to think about. I went into quite a bit of detail about the tasks I wanted a khukri for, how I felt my needs were different from most, and was trying to choose between a couple different models. The quick re-cap is that I was not looking for the biggest, heaviest thickest khukri as chopping was not necessarily my main goal. I was looking more for working with green wood, crafting projects, and at best, light duty dead wood tasks, such as fire prep. I was bouncing around between a 20" Sirupati and the 21" Gelbu Special.

Originally, I was leaning towards the Sirupati. I tried to order one, and it was not in stock. I guess it was fate Because I started looking closer at the lengths and weights, and started to play with some of my other favorite large tools at home. Even though they were not khukri's, I figured the dimensions and weight would dial me in closer to what I wanted. One of my all time favorite tools is much closer to what the Gelbu Special was. So, I placed an order for that, and it showed up on Friday. Yangdu was awesome in helping me out. Top notch customer service there!

After getting a bit burned on my first ever khukri (from another manufacturer) I was a bit scared in opening the package. As soon as got the first bit off paper off the handle, I started to get excited.



This khukri is nice!!! Looking it over, in detail, there are little things that a picky eye can notice. But, you can tell that a lot of skill went into making this blade.

I should have taken pictures first. But, I was too excited to see how this thing worked. I did some sideways flex testing (as Bill does here) (http://www.himalayan-imports.com/Testing.htm) to make sure everything was good in the handle and handle/blade junction area. I have seen import/tourist type khukri break right away when new, under very light chopping load. So, I just wanted to check things out. I didn't go crazy putting tons of pressure on the thing…..just enough to feel comfortable with the overall design.

The blade was so shiny, the small amount of playing and chopping I did left some scuff marks on the blade. So, these "initial" photos are with those scuff marks. Here are my first pictures of the blade:







To Be Continued…...

 

[Brian Andrews]

Here is my very, very early initial use impressions of this thing.

First off, I really think I made the right choice with this blade. The length is great. The blade starts out really thick at the spine, but has a nice distal taper. The nice narrow shape, with the concave fuller, yet the long blade give a great combination of length and mass. It is heavy enough to provide a powerful blow, but not too heavy that I still can't do a "machete type" wrist flick with it. Perfect!!!!

I feel this particular tool is right in the sweet spot for me. If I choose to swing with an axe like blow, it still has plenty of mass behind it. If I want a little more penetration and speed, I can wrist flick it still at the last moment. It is a beautiful thing!

Because it has a narrower blade profile, the tip is awesome. Nice and thin, and will come in handy.



A couple things I noticed. The blade is nice and sharp in the sweet spot. I am sure the way it came would make most people happy. I did notice that the tip was not fully ground to the edge. No problem, I will touch that up. Going from the sweet spot closer to the handle, it remains sharp until about halfway through the curve. Again, it ends up not being fully ground to the edge in that area. No big deal, I will work that out later too. Here is a picture, and you can see what I am talking about. The spot that grabs light is a flat spot of metal and it has not been ground all the way to the edge.



After the flex testing, the first thing I did was grab some green wood. I have some ash shoots around my place that grow like weeds! You chop one down and three will grow back I don't even want them around on my fence row, but I leave them there for craft projects, making stuff, and cutting tests. I bend a very large one over, and whack right through it, no problem.

Limbing is a piece of a cake, and so is cutting the tip off in machete like fashion. I immediately go back to the big end, and trim the end with glancing blows like I would with a machete (I will make a video on all this one day ). Very nice….I am liking it. I take the wood over to the chopping block and can hack fully through any section with ease.

Now that I got my "initial use" out of the way, I wanted to get the full length of the blade sharp. Since I figured I was going to hand sharpen it anyway, I wanted to check the edge hardness to see how hard/soft the edge is in the sweet spot, the tip and the area close the handle. I used rockwell files and checked the hardness the length of the blade. Everything is good as I would expect so I used my pocket waterstones set and worked up a burr on both sides all the way up and down the edge. . I knocked the burr of with leather loaded with a polishing compound. The edge is now nice and polished and ready for some more work.

Once sharp, the tip on this things is amazing. It is ground thin (which is how I want it), and because the blade has a fairly narrow profile, it has an awesome tip on it. The sweet spot of the blade is ground with great geometry. Not to thin, not too thick. The area in the curve, closer to the handle will be used for more detailed work, and has a bit thicker geometry than I would like initially. But, I will get some real world use in before I form too much of an opinion on that area of the blade.

Overall, I am extremely impressed and happy with this blade. I am glad I have it, and I can't wait to get it out for real and have some fun with it.

Here are some final pictures, just in case you are interested. It was hot and humid out, so the shiny blade was kind of "Fogging" up. Not the best pictures. I re-polished the blade later, and everything looked fine, even though I am not the type to worry about looks. In a few weeks, this thing will probably start to develop a patina.







I will do some more in depth reviews as I get more use on this thing. I would like to say I will get a video done, but we see how that goes

I am writing an article on big blades, and this one will probably be featured. So, I may end up using my reviews/videos for those articles, which means I can't publish the same stuff elsewhere

Take care,
Brian

 

[twolfnm]

Congrats, Brian. That looks VERY nice!
Could you post some stats? Blade length, weight, POB?
Thanks in advance.