Help selecting hones

Starfish

Starfish

Joined
Jun 14, 2001
Messages
1,256
It's my birthday today, and so I get to pick out some toys for myself :)

My freehand efforts so far have consisted of cutting various grits of sandpaper and using spray adhesive to mount to a glass backing. It works OK, but takes more effort than I care to expend and as a result, keeps me from freehand sharpening as much as I would like.

I'd like some recommendations for the following types of hones:

1) One for hogging metal when I want to thin out the edge (or repair an edge)
2) One for putting a fine edge on the knife for everyday work
3) One for putting a scary shiver sharp edge on the knife :)

I'm thinking maybe a DMT (coarse?) hone, and a set of the Spyderco medium/fine/ultrafine benchstones to fill these requirements. I'm open to other suggestions though - I just don't want to buy another "system" that has setup and teardown hoops.

What are your recommendations?

Thanks,

Matthew
 
I'd skip the ultrafine until you get really good at sharpening, and want that last bit of ultra polished push cutting ability. I'd definately add a decent strop though, I've heard good things about the hand american leather hones/strops.
 
Thanks, I've got a strop now from Lee Valley with the green compound that works well.

Here's another question: is the coarse DMT "too" coarse for sharpening? I'm trying to strike the right balance between wanting to thin out an edge without making a career of it, and removing metal too quickly.

I'd also be interested in hearing what any of the pros here would suggest in place of the setup I mentioned above (coarse DMT + Spyderco medium/fine/ultrafine). Would there be any advantage to using natural stones inistead?

Thanks,

Matthew
 
For the DMT, the coarser, the better. It takes a lot less work to smooth the edge than it does to hog it out in the first place.

I also see no advantage for natural stones. The spyderco stones are very good.
 
I agree...The Spyderco Benchstones are GREAT! I received the 302F (fine) stone yesterday, and it "works" VERY WELL...I'm impressed with it.
 
Know what type of steel you intend to put to the hone. Some steels are softer than others and require a lighter touch whereas some hard tool steels require more pressure to the stroke. Over the years I have found a diamond dust benchstone is the way to go for freehand sharpening. I use my knives a lot. But don' t allow them go dull like a butter knife. I too prefer a slightly "toothy" edge for all my working blades. But not one like the teeth of a hacksaw blade! IME, a FINE grit diamond works well for my particular needs. If a steel is at say 60- 61 Rockwell such as D2, then more pressure is required when stroking the edge on the stone. If on the other hand you like 1095 carbon which sharpens up pretty easily, then lighter pressure is called for. If anyone has ever used a coarse diamond stone on a regular basis, then you will know that you won' t easily achieve these same results successfully for both hard and softer blades. Eze- Lap or DMT brands will do.

N.
 
There is a huge gap between a coarse diamond hone and ceramic finishing setup like a Sharpmaker. I would suggest getting something like a Norton 220/1000 grit two-sided waterstone for your coarse work. Most of the time you may find the 1000 grit is coarse enough. Going from 220 to 1000 on a water stone will clean be a nicer progression for getting to a smooth edge. The waterstones will cut just about as fast as the diamond. This should be about half as expensive as the diamond hone. After the waterstone you can go to the Sharpmaker. I would go ahead and also get the Ultra Fine rods. They don't cost much and they'll help you get a bragging edge.
 
I sharpen free hand and use a coarse diamond hone to hog metal, a fine and/or extra fine diamond hone to put on my normal working edge and a hard water stone to put a finishing edge on anything I want scary sharp.
 
DMT #220 or #320 (x-coarse or coarse)

Bester 1000# Waterstone

Naniwa or Shapton 8000-10000# Waterstone

leevalley strop + compound

Of course you could go with the Spyderco ceramic stones, but then you might as well go with the Sharpmaker and forget about the freehand. If you want to go freehand I would suggest you go all the way to some nice waterstones.
 
I'd go with a coarse diamond fine diamond, Me Spyderco, and the fine Spydy. After that you can strop on leather. You may find you don't like a very polished edge for your cutting needs. If you do then you can get the polishing hones later and you'll still use the ones you already have.
 
If you stick to all synthetic (well, not water stones and oil stones) you could get a medium DMT as a transitional stone
 
Wow, thanks for all of the replies! I'm learning a bit about the differences between abrasive types - and I'd like to know more. To the search function! :)

I didn't mention this earlier, but one reason I am biased toward the diamond benchstones and the Spyderco benchstones is that I want a low-maintenance solution - no stone-flattening required, no messy oil, etc. However, the number one priority is the ability to put a good sharp edge on a knife with a minimal amount of setup/teardown time and with a reasonable amount of sharpening time.

Thanks,

Matthew
 
Jeff Clark said:
There is a huge gap between a coarse diamond hone and ceramic finishing setup like a Sharpmaker. I would suggest getting something like a Norton 220/1000 grit two-sided waterstone for your coarse work. Most of the time you may find the 1000 grit is coarse enough. Going from 220 to 1000 on a water stone will clean be a nicer progression for getting to a smooth edge. The waterstones will cut just about as fast as the diamond. This should be about half as expensive as the diamond hone. After the waterstone you can go to the Sharpmaker. I would go ahead and also get the Ultra Fine rods. They don't cost much and they'll help you get a bragging edge.
Click to expand...

Jeff, thanks for chiming in - I was hoping you would. I have the Sharpmaker already, and was planning on obtaining the 8x2 ceramic stones from Spyderco. In my previous post, I mentioned that I am biased against waterstones since I do not want to have to perform the maintenance of flattening out the stones. Could the Norton 220/1000 be replaced by a coarse/fine DMT combo?

Am I making too much of the waterstone maintenance?

Thanks,

Matthew
 
The idea that flattening waterstones is critical comes from applications where the entire blade bevel is honed flat, like chisels. Maybe scandinavian knives or samurai swords need a completely flat hone, but most knife edge honing doesn't. I grew up working on old dished oil stones. They work just fine. They automatically give you a little bit of convexing, but not as much as you might think. The radius of curvature on a hone that is slightly dished is huge.

If you are not sharpening a large number of knives it will take a considerable time before you even notice any dishing. All you have to do to flatten the hone is invert it and rub it on some Wet or Dry paper taped to a counter top.

A coarse (or medium-coarse) diamond bench hone and a fine diamond bench hone is an effective way to profile and put a basic edge on a blade. The primary problem is expense. This comes in from two ways. The first is buying the hones. A good general purpose hone is 8 inches long. This is expensive with diamond hones. The second expense is wear out. I've worn out quite a few diamond hones over the last 10 years. If you don't mind the expense the diamond hone approach is viable. I would tend to go medium-coarse instead of coarse. The coarse hones really grab your blade and it is easy to slip and marr your finish with one. They also can leave a rather rough burr as you work. A fine (or extra-fine) diamond hone is a good adjunct to the coarser hone. It is good for smoothing and deburring as well as sharpening.

Here is a link to a great chart comparing hones:

http://users.ameritech.net/knives/speed.htm
 
Jeff,

Thanks for the explanation. My only other experience with using waterstones is from the EdgePro, which I sold quite a while ago. One thing I never found out was how much water to use with the waterstones. I.e., do I need some sort of water bath to soak the stones in prior to use? Is there some kind of base that allows one to use wet waterstones without getting water all over the place?

Thanks,

Matthew
 
I use my waterstones in the kitchen, either above the sink or next to it. I am a heretic of sorts. I don't really want excess loose grit around as I hone. Yes it helps to break down the hone to expose fresh sharp grit and the loose grit itself probably has extra sharp corners to speed the honing process, but I figure that it has to make the honing surfaces more irregular and it may cause the hone to wear faster than necessary. Because of this (and old habits) I sometimes hold my waterstone in my left hand and hone with my right hand under the slowly running kitchen sink tap. This keeps the hone wet, washes off some of the loose grit, and keeps the kitchen neat.

When I want to hold things a little straighter and I feel like building a grit slurry I work next to the kitchen sink on the counter. Most of the waterstones that I have come with a plastic case that doubles as a base to elevate the stone as you hone. Generally this also helps to keep the stone from shifting as I work, protects the counter from scratches and catches some of the mess. They make some antiskid sink mats that might help for this purpose. Generally cleanup is not that big a problem. Even with a diamond hone you need a rag around to clean up the dust from your work.

A good place to look at a variety of waterstones is a Woodcraft store. Even if you go and shop the internet when you buy it helps to see the stones and bases (if any) at a store. There is a significant difference between brands and types. For example the Norton waterstones that I have tried seem coarser than Japanese stones with similar numbers.
 
PS. There are differences in how much water you need to use depending on type of hone and the grit size. Generally the very fine hones don't allow much water penetration so soaking them doesn't add much benefit. The coarser hones call for more soaking. The traditional Japanese hones call for more soaking than some modern varieties. The Shapton website has a lot of info. I like their professional model modern hones:
http://www.shaptonstones.com/
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top