Help with 3 phase motor

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Feb 20, 2006
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Picked up a (what appears to be brand new and never wired) Baldor 2 hp 3 phase motor for almost nothing at all. I figured for the price I might find some use for it. I have 220 in my shop but I am electrically challenged and have no idea what or how I could use this thing. Could someone direct me in the right direction......What/how can I convert this to run another belt grinder or other device. What would be the best use of this motor?

Thanks
 
I think most people would tell you, myself included, that the best use of this motor would be to run it with a VFD. That stands for Variable Frequency Drive. Although you have 220V power in your shop, I'm assuming you have 1 phase service only. To run a 3 phase motor then, you need a method of phase conversion. There are three main ways of doing this: get a rotary phase converter, get a static phase converter, or get a VFD.

The first two options, while still available and widely used, were more favored before VFDs became more common and less expensive. The great thing about a VFD is that the right one will not only convert your single phase 115 or 220V to 220V 3phase, but it allows you to control the speed of your motor. It's now the cheapest option of the three as well.

We use several different VFDs around here. Many favor the KBAC27, which would be perfect for your motor, I and many others as well use the TECO FM50, also a great VFD and possibly a bit less expensive to get into, and I'm aware of VFD options now as cheap as $120 or so to run a motor like yours. The main thing to keep an eye on is what type of enclosure the VFD has. If it's NEMA4 enclosed, this means it can be right in your grinding area or even mounted directly or your machine, with no added protection from airborne grit particles needed. If it's more of an open enclosure, usually it will cost less, but added precaution is absolutely necessary, such as building a filtered enclosure for it, or moving out of the grinding area and running it with remote switches.

If you go with a VFD, use your search function to research it. It has been gone over exhaustively here in shoptalk.
 
You need either a VFD or a rotory phase converter. Your 220V power in your house has two legs of power. You need a third leg for 3 phase. A VFD will take two legs of power and produce three legs and gives you the added benefit of controlling the speed of your motor. A rotary phase converter is another three phase motor that the first two legs are powered by your household 220v and the third leg is fired up by a large capacitor. Once the motor of the rotary phase converter is started it only needs two legs of power to run but, connect your new motor to the three legs of the rotory phase converter and the spinning motor of the converter will output three legs of power giving your motor the three phase power it needs. I hope this description helps you. I would go with a VFD. You can find them cheaper than a rotary phase converter and you get variable speed control for your Baldor. Whichever route you go, make sure the device you are buying supports 2 hp for your motor.
 
Hey Salem,

We posted at the same time and you nailed it. Great advice and detail about enclosures.
 
Well, you explained the intricacies of 3phase conversion more in-depth than I felt up to. Funny when that happens, eh? It's definitely a good point of yours that you want to pick a VFD specifically suited to your motor. They are not all the same by any means. Some don't even convert phase...
 
Ok my motor is a baldor 208-230/460 volt, 2 hp, 1755 rpm, open slot enclosed (25 bucks and looks like it is brand new). What's the best way to guard this from dust, stockings? Also, any suggestions on the best pricing on a vfd for this? I've been reading about it but thought someone would already have the lowdown.
 
imo VFD is the way to go
look at 'driveswarehouse'
what's the current rating of the motor?

you'll need a sqrt(3) x 2 ~ 3.5 HP drive, assuming 240/1 to 240/3 output, go with a 5 HP (3 might be slightly overloaded)
 
Again, when it comes to electricity, it may as well be written in Latin......it does not compute to me. Rating on it says something like 10a at 40c. Is that what you were asking about shrodinger?
 
Will 2hp vfd work for 2hp motor? What's the deal with earlier post about upping to 5hp. OK no need for lengthy explanation as it won't make sense anyway.....the fm50 202-c would sure be more affordable if it would work. Maybe a wood box with filter on it to control dust from grinder?
 
Again, when it comes to electricity, it may as well be written in Latin......it does not compute to me. Rating on it says something like 10a at 40c. Is that what you were asking about shrodinger?

40C is the operating temp, meaning it can run in 104F temps indefinitely
the current will look something like this 4.6-4.2/2.1 A which is the current at the various voltages, ie, 208-230/460 VAC
the drive must be derated or it won't last long, the HP is usually referenced to 3 phase

and here is why:
let's say the motor uses 4.2 A at 230 vac, so P = sqrt(3) x 230 x 4.2 ~ 1670 W
let's assume the drive is 90% efficient, so the input power must be ~ 1670/0.9 ~ 1857 W
the eqivilent single phase current to make the same 2 HP is 1857/230 ~ 8.07 A
the drive is rated for 3 lines/phases of current, you are only using 2 legs...
the diodes/rectifier, SS swithces/inverter are sized for 3 lines

side track: a VFD works as follows: takes the incoming 3 phase, makes DC, then chops it back to AC with a variable timed inverter

back on track
a 2 HP is sized for ~ 4-5A at 240/3, it will see ~8 with single phase, the components are overloaded
what size do we need?
equivilent 3 phase P = sqrt(3) x 8.07 x 230 ~ 3211 W, converted to HP = 3211/746 ~ 4.3 HP

use a 5 HP drive...
each line of the 5 HP can handle >8 A of current, the 2 HP can only handle ~4.5 or so

without sounding like a smart ass I do this for a living

this assumes a fully loaded motor (as should be assumed/sized) but under engineering supervision you can downsize if you know the load...
so the 3.5 HP may work in a grinder/polishing application, but not say a pump
 
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Thanks a million Shrodinger. You da man. Electrical is not one of my few talents. Thanks for the education.
 
a 2 HP is sized for ~ 4-5A at 240/3, it will see ~8 with single phase, the components are overloaded...

...each line of the 5 HP can handle >8 A of current, the 2 HP can only handle ~4.5 or so

The TECO FM50 202 is rated for output current of up to 7.5 amps.
http://www.tecowestinghouse.com/PDF/FM50(08.04).pdf

Should work, right? Also, nowhere in the literature I got with the model I have, or the literature at TECO does it mention running a 3hp 3ph motor with 1 phase 220V input as anything but a matter of course for this model. These drives are designed for this.

You don't sound like a smartass, you sound smart. Your educated response made me go do my homework. I don't like to think that MY drive is underrated for my motor...

Fried, if this is thread drift, I apologize. It seems to still bear on the original question as far as I can see.
 
if it rated for 7.5 A x 230 x 1.73 ~ 3000 W or 3000/746 ~ 4 HP, essentially a 4 HP drive, not 2
some drives have oversized inputs rated for single phase use, this is the exception, not the rule...
these seem to be 1 or 3 phase rated (the smaller sizes only 1 phase, the larger 3 phase) the 202 in the middle both, so the 202 will be fine
FLA for 2HP at 230/3 is 6.8 A http://www.westernextralite.com/resources.asp?key=48
FLA for 2HP 230/1 is 12 A http://www.westernextralite.com/resources.asp?key=37
sqrt(3) x 6.8 ~ 11.8, 3 phase are bit more eff


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Variable-frequency_drive#cite_ref-6
Since incoming power is converted to DC, many units will accept single-phase as well as three-phase input power (acting as a phase converter as well as a speed controller); however the unit must be derated when using single phase input as only part of the rectifier bridge is carrying the connected load.[7]



The TECO FM50 202 is rated for output current of up to 7.5 amps.
http://www.tecowestinghouse.com/PDF/FM50(08.04).pdf

Should work, right? Also, nowhere in the literature I got with the model I have, or the literature at TECO does it mention running a 3hp 3ph motor with 1 phase 220V input as anything but a matter of course for this model. These drives are designed for this.

You don't sound like a smartass, you sound smart. Your educated response made me go do my homework. I don't like to think that MY drive is underrated for my motor...

Fried, if this is thread drift, I apologize. It seems to still bear on the original question as far as I can see.
 
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Great. I feel smarter for the exchange. Hopefully the OP has learned some good things here as well. Thanks for clearing that up.
 
Great. I feel smarter for the exchange. Hopefully the OP has learned some good things here as well. Thanks for clearing that up.

cool
it's why I come to places like this, to learn
I share what little I know, and reap more in return
I get the better end of the deal :D
 
if you went the route of rotary converter.. that would allow you to have more motors running... and depending on the size of idler you went with.. you could have it start under hard conditions.. for say a hydraulic press or compressor..
-myself, i'm just in the middle of wiring the shop for a rotary.... all those cheep surplus 3phase motors was just too tempting !!
 
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