Help with a Ka-bar

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mikewageman

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Apr 30, 2013
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I am new to this forum and have a question about a Ka-bar on only one side is stamped.(withe KA-BAR) nothing on the otherside is this normal or a fake? The scabbard has no marking except for a persons name and a number the same name is engraved on the blade any help would be great. thanks for any help with this.
 
it sounds like a fake to me. I was selling k-bars at daytone florida flemarket. a curtomer came by and said he didnt know that they are now being made in china. another dealer had them on display. K-bar on one side and china on the other side. they made him pull them out and get them out of the market. they have to make them in the USA to keep there military contrack.
 
richard thurman said:
it sounds like a fake to me. I was selling k-bars at daytone florida flemarket. a curtomer came by and said he didnt know that they are now being made in china. another dealer had them on display. K-bar on one side and china on the other side. they made him pull them out and get them out of the market. they have to make them in the USA to keep there military contrack.
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Your going to need to post a pic or at least give a better description to determine whether it's fake or not.

KA-BAR has had some knives made in China, never the USMC F/U knife though. Also unless i'm mistaken KA-BAR hasn't had a military contract for the F/U knife since WW 2.
 
when I was in the army they where still passing out K-bars. if they didn't have a contrak since ww2 how is this possible please?? these where brand new too.
 
richard thurman said:
when I was in the army they where still passing out K-bars. if they didn't have a contrak since ww2 how is this possible please?? these where brand new too.
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For a better lack of words " Kabar " is a generic term that most people associate with the F/U knife regardless of who manufactured it.

I would imagine you were issued one made by either Camillus or Ontario since you said you were in the US Army.

Again unless i'm mistaken, KA-BAR stopped producing the F/U at the end of WW 2, they didn't start producing it again till 1976 i believe.
 
richard thurman said:
I was in from 1981-1985. I looked at the knife and it said K-bar one side and USA on the other.
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Apologies to the OP, not trying to derail your thread.

Richard, without seeing a pic of what you were " issued " it's kind of hard to determine exactly what you have. I stand by what i said earlier, KA-BAR has not had a military contract for the USMC F/U knife since the end of WW 2. Quite a few other companies have, Camillus,Ontario,Conetta,MSI, etc.
KA-BAR has made the F/U knife with different markings, USN,USA, etc. these were for commercial sales, not government contracts.

Richard if you have anymore comments or questions concerning the USMC F/U knife i would suggest you contact either " trz " or " sac troop " , both members here on Bladeforums and in my opinion walking encyclopedias when it comes to the history of the 1219C2.
 
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richard thurman said:
I was in from 1981-1985. I looked at the knife and it said K-bar one side and USA on the other.
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Richard your not crazy. But then you already knew that.:)
Actually both sides of this argument are right, (to some degree).
It’s true that the Union Cutlery Company didn’t make any more of the knife pattern number 1219C2 after 1945. During WW2 they made the largest total number of these type of knives with their owned brand name of “KA-BAR”. Three other companies also made this knife for our troops during WW2 with their name stamped on the knife, (per government specifications), but the name “KA-BAR” stuck to this type of knife.
In the early 1950’s the Union Cutlery Co. changed their name to KA-BAR. The company has changed ownership a few times since then but that’s another story. In 1976 KA-BAR reintroduced this knife commercially as a commemorative. As we know they’ve been making the knife along with variations ever since.
As far as being awarded a “Government Contract” to produce these knives for Uncle Sam. The best information shows that this still hasn’t happened since WW2. Although Toooj would be the best source for confirming or updating this information.
But “Government Contract” isn’t the only way that gear gets into the the official supply chain.
Here’s a link to a short article from 2003 in Frank Trzaska’s Knife Knotes X. If the link doesn’t work. Go to “usmilitaryknives.com, open archived knife knotes, open knife knotes X, do a (find) for “black Ka-Bars” and it will take you to the specific article about 2/3’s of the way down the page.
http://usmilitaryknives.com/knife_knotes_10.htm
It’s interesting that the handles of the knives in the article received treatment that wasn’t normal for the commercially produced knives. This happened at sometime. There’s a backstory to these knives and it would be great, to me, to learn what it is.
Asking to recall something that happened a long time ago would probably be asking too much to remember what the handle of your knife specifically looked like.
Richard, I have no doubts about your story. I just don’t have facts to help explain it.
If you go to Franks site you will find a link to contacting him via e-mail. I think he would like to hear from you regarding when you were issued this knife and what unit you were assigned to at the time.
brboru7, thanks for the compliment. But really the most I’ve learned is just how little I know.:D
 
Thanks for the link and refreshing my memory sac troop, i've read quite a bit of Franks writings on the 1219C2 and had forgotten all about that particular article.

As you said, a interesting backstory for sure.
 
sac troop said:
“Government Contract” isn’t the only way that gear gets into the the official supply chain.
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Ditto, just because there's not a contract doesn't mean that the Ka-bar isn't purchased off the shelf for military use.

OP, there's been lots ( I mean LOTS) of different markings over the years. I don't know enough to rule it out as fake and wouldn't have assumed such from your description.

Posting up pics would make it a much simpler process. (there's a tread around here on how to do that, I know that I struggled with it at 1st.)

Out of curiosity, Why would they make the man pull his imitation Chinese (presumably where 99.9% of everything else in the flea market was made also) KA-BARs off the table?

It was obviously stamped differently, I do believe that I can make a production run of "Marine Corps Fighting Knives", Label them k-a-Bar, and sell if I felt like it if I felt like it. Assuming my labeling was different enough with slight tweaks to the design.

Also, who made him?? I grew up in the flea market game, I've never seen any Flea Market police to tell what I can and can't sell.
 
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"Ka-Bar" is the registered trademark of Ka-bar. No one but Ka-Bar may use it without Ka-bar's permission. It is a federal crime to bring counterfeit goods into the U.S. or knowingly sell such goods. I can imagine that reputable site owners would not want federal felonies taking place on their premises.
 
The PX sells all sorts of things. Guns, beer, Gerber knives, Craftsman tools, Macbooks, lingerie and so forth.
 
richard thurman said:
if I made a mistake then I am sorry but I know what I saw.
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Maybe I misunderstood you did you mean the PX was selling fake Ka-Bars that were labeled Ka-Bar? I do know that the PX sells regular Ka-Bars or at least has in the past.
 
mikewageman said:
I am new to this forum and have a question about a Ka-bar on only one side is stamped.(withe KA-BAR) nothing on the otherside is this normal or a fake? The scabbard has no marking except for a persons name and a number the same name is engraved on the blade any help would be great. thanks for any help with this.
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mikewageman, we really haven’t addressed your original question. Many things have come up after your original post starting this thread. I’d like to try and reply to your original question.
If I can take the liberty to re-arrange your question. I’d restate it as this:
Are there any known examples from WW2 of 1219C2 pattern knives with only the name “KA-BAR” marked on the blade?
The short answer to that question would be YES.
In all fairness the only good way to confirm if what you have is the genuine article or something else would be pictures. One or more of the whole knife. An in focus close-up of the actual marking. Some good close-ups of the pommel from different angles. At least one that shows how the pommel is attached to the tang.
 
Psyop said:
Maybe I misunderstood you did you mean the PX was selling fake Ka-Bars that were labeled Ka-Bar? I do know that the PX sells regular Ka-Bars or at least has in the past.
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noo the ones I saw at the PX where the real deal. the china guy at daytona florida flemarket was selling fake big time. a couple of my customers that didnt like him went down there and started so much crap that the owner came down and told him to get it out of his market.
 
mikewageman said:
I am new to this forum and have a question about a Ka-bar on only one side is stamped.(withe KA-BAR) nothing on the otherside is this normal or a fake? The scabbard has no marking except for a persons name and a number the same name is engraved on the blade any help would be great. thanks for any help with this.
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We need photos!! Early WW2 models with the "bluish" looking zinc wash rather than the gray parkerized finish bore only the KA-BAR mark on the front side of the ricasso with no Olean or U.S.N. or USMC markings.
 
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