Help with ATP-641 please

O

oconeedan

Joined
May 23, 2009
Messages
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I need some help here.
I read the thread about using ATP-641 to coat the blades as an alternative to foil envelopes. Bought some from Brownells.
Instructions are short and simple...dip, brush, or spray this stuff on your blade, and cut with water to get the right consistancy.
I don't want to put this stuff through an air brush or spray gun, so I would rather dip or brush it on.
I can't get it to stick to the blade, at all. It beads up like I sprayed it with Pam.:confused:
I cleaned a blade with alcohol. Still beads up. I heated to about 200F, still beads up. I used course sandpaper and sanded by hand to scuff it up a bit, that didn't help.
How do you get this stuff to stick to a blade? By the way, I am using ATS-34.
Thanks in advance.
Dan
 
Ummmm never used it on SS before. :confused: On my 10XX blades I just clean well, hit the blade with a heat gun, brush it on straight from the jar, hit it again with the heat gun then go back and touch up the spots I missed or where it shrunk back when drying. I usualy have my blades at 220x or so when I'm doing this.
 
I have used it on CPM154. It does work, but it's difficult to keep the coating on the whole blade when you put it in the kiln. I have had much better luck using it on O1. I have tried a lot of different methods of applying it. What works best for me is taking the blade to 220 grit or higher, wash the entire blade with soap and water then dry. Now mix and shake up the ATP until you think you have mixed enough, then mix and shake it up a lot more. Dip the blade, give it a few taps to pop the air bubbles and let drip dry at room temperature. After it dries check to make sure it's completely covered. If you see dried air bubbles, pop them and touch that spot up. I have tried using heat to dry it. It shrinks and cracks so bad, you end with a very uneven coating when you fix the uncoated areas.

I have never had to cut it with water, it's very thin. It sounds like you didn't mix it up enough. It is a suspension so it does settle very bad.
 
I'll go back and try again Safta. I am pretty much doing the same thing now but I'll shake it more.
Thin? This stuff I have is pretty thick, no way could you spray it as is, nearly as thick as Naval Jelly. It will pour, and if you dip your finger in it you get a good coating on the end of your finger about 1/8" thick. But I am not trying to heat treat my finger!
Dan
 
I've been thinning it with water -about 8:1 ATP:water. So far only O1 and it does have to be clean or the stuff just beads up. Soap and water gives the clean best (better than acetone).

I'm getting good results, but I'm still not happy with dip thickness. I'm going to try brush on next. Blades are coming out cleaner than they did with Turco.

Thanks for starting this thread. Watching and sharing.

Rob!
 
I bought it from the manufacturer, they are about 20 minutes from me. The ATP I got is not much thicker than water after mixing. The surface gets frothy from mixing, but the viscosity is between water and milk. The coating wet and dry is extremely thin. The problem I had using it on stainless was knocking the coating off the tang as you handled it in and out of the kiln.
 
Well, it may not be the kosher thing to do, but I found it helped to add a few drops of dish detergent. I use that trick when spraying roundup on weeds and it just beads up on the leaves, the detergent breaks the surface tension of the water and allows it to cover better.
That said, I still had to touch up 3 times to get complete blade coverage.
And I was not happy when using it with ATS-34 SS. It did fine until I pulled out of oven to air quench. I laid the blades on a grid and watched the ATP-641 start popping like popcorn, popping off. While the blade was still HOT. And instant scaling. Took the blades a minute or two to cool down enough to stop the scaling, but damage was done.
Maybe if I quench between two plates of aluminum or steel, cool down quicker to minimize damage? Or maybe go back to foil. Or try turco. Money is tight and trying not to throw money at the problem.
Dan
 
I've done one set of three 1084 blades with the ATP so far. Heating to around 200 F and brushing resulted in a pretty even coating. That's the good news. The coating was thin, fragile and powdery.

Next morning I looked at the places it had rubbed off from very minimal resting, touched up those places and immediately put the blades in the rack in my kiln. I knew that the coating would rub off wherever the blade touched the rack but hoped that it would still provide some protection as long as I didn't move the blade.

Took the blades out and oil quenched them one at a time. They came out very clean, better than I've gotten with PBC.

I normally use SS foil and plates with air hardening steels but wonder how 13C26 would do with the same treatment. The official specs do say to oil quench it...
 
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