help with first knife

D

dbreeze225

Joined
Sep 12, 2014
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84
hey guys so i did some research and have decided to make a attempt at making my first knife. I got a piece of flat bar "plain steel" at home depot. I have read that annealing will make the work alot easier. So i took some cinder blocks in the back yard made a lil fire box and put a thick piece of metal over the top. I then filled this fire box with a mix of small pieces of wood and also charcoal. Lit it threw the steel in and let it burn so i could get the coal nice and hot. Then i made sure the steel was nicely placed in the coals put a couple more pieces of wood and charcoal on top. Let that catch. Then i took my air compressor to blow some air in and make it hotter. Now the steel got hot but i dont know if it was hot enough (dont have a temp gauge) . Just letting it burn it was not "red hot" but when i blew air in with the compressor it was just enough to just get the steel turning orangey red. I kept blowing air at it for like 30-40 mins then just let the fire burn itself out over night. It was just geting cool to the touch this morning ( i read the longer it takes to cool the better). I was going to use a handheld torch to kinda help things along but i had no gas so i had to do with out. I did go get some gas so i could use it now. Is there anyway to tell if this "annealing process" has been sucessful? will doing it again with the torch help or do you guys think this was good enough to soften the steel so its easier to work with? Also at the end of this whole thing i want to basicly do the same thing all over again but insted of letting it cool slowly i wan to drop it in oil or water right to harden in back up so it will hold a edge? Any tips or advice would really be appreciated wether its on the topic of how to tell if it was fully annealed or anything helpfull. i have always got good advice on this site so THANKS ahead of time guys!
 
I think to anneal you need to go black hot not orange hot, so just the fire was probably enough.
Then once shaped close you need to heat to just past non magnetic and quench in oil. I think canola is recommended.
More info in the knife makers sub forum.
 
The steel at Home Depot will not work for making a functional knife. Not enough carbon.
Annealing high carbon steel, which is needed to make a knife, is done by heating the steel to non magnetic, let soak at temp for a few minutes and then placing the steel under a material where it will cool slowly. Vermiculite or used coke both work well.

A good place to get information on making your first, second and third knives, is Shop Talk. Read the stickies at the top of the page. You will save your self years of frustration by doing this.

Regards, Fred
 
fred.rowe can you explain the reasoning why the steel from home depot wont work? i have read people makeing knife from both high and low carbon steel and mostly just different temp.'s to heat treat?
 
of i forgot i found out the grade for the piece i was going to use is A1011 steel dont know how much that matters
 
In a nut shell, there is just not enough carbon in mild steel so when the steel is quenched it will not reach a hardness level that will carry a cutting edge. Mild steel has .05 to .30 carbon the rest of it is iron. These two atoms make up basic steel. Carbon and Iron make steel. In order for a steel to be used to make a knife blade it should contain @ least .55 percent carbon relative to the iron content. Some of the most common high carbon steels used for knife making contain from .55 to 1.0 percent carbon.
Many makers use what are known as 10 series steels for their knife blades, They use either 1075-1080-1084, the last two numbers denote carbon content. Along with the carbon other alloying agents are added to the steel to give it different characteristics such as chromium @ 14 percent will make the steel stainless steel. 1.25 percent magnesium will make the steel harden all the way through. Some alloys make the steel harder other than carbon, they are tungsten, chromium, molybdenum and vanadium.
Once a steel reaches a carbon content of .84 percent no amount of carbon above this will make the steel harder when its quenched.

These are just a few basic knife steel facts. Metallurgy is a fairly complex study.

If you are interested in making a knife log into the Shop Talk forum on this website. There are hundreds of knife makers on that forum, many of them will share their craft with you, as I have.
To start off read some of the stickies at the top of the Shop Talk forum page. Reading these will save you money and time. There is much to making knives, I've been doing it for 16 years and am still learning The basics can be found in the stickies in Shop Talk.

Happy grinding, Fred
 
ok thanks fred i already got this piece half cut out so ill see what happens at worst its a learning experience maybe i can find things to fine tune before i try it on quality steel......can you think of any stores that i might find decent steel localy or is it something i need to get offline? what about used parts for steel i have seen people online making knife blades from anything like old tool files to leaf spring suspensions from trucks....would steel like that be better than what i have the same or worse? also how do i get into this "shop talk" you were talking about its on this site ? didnt see it anywhere
 
Here's the shop talk link http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/forumdisplay.php/741-Shop-Talk-BladeSmith-Questions-and-Answers

Aldo Bruno AKA the New Jersey Steel Baron supplies many knife makers with high carbon steel. Get the 1084 to start out anything over 1/8 thick will work for you starting out.


NJ Steel Baron | Quality Steel for Quality Blades
newjerseysteelbaron.com/
Quality Steel for Quality Blades. PrevNext. 1. Featured Steel ... New Jersey Steel Baron, LLC was created by Aldo Bruno to provide the high-quality knife blade ...

(973) 949-4140
 
Tai, knows his stuff. He shuns most tech tools, program able kilns and the like. So much of what this post suggest is open to interpretation, reading the colors and judging temperatures by the color. You have to establish a base line if you want to use these judgement calls.

Annealing steel is about time at temperature for most of us. The steel can be heated to non magnetic and let cool slowly in an insulator such as vermiculite. It can be spherodized, which will make the steel really soft with a large grain size. Spherodizing is accomplished by heating the steel to under the temp where the steel goes non magnetic, most steels around 1275fh and soaking for a few hours. This will make most steels like butter. I have an elec. kiln and this is the technique I use. There are many ways to accomplish different knife making techniques. If you want a high rate of success try to establish sound metallurgical techniques.

Regards, Fred
 
hey guys i got another quick question i did a search and couldn't find much to answer and what i did was conflicted......as i said earlier with the steel i got its already cut out and mostly filed so even if it has to low carbon i was going to go ahead anyway and just see what happens like i said at worst ill learn some things. But i came across info about "case hardening" on the web. From what i understand it basically hardens the very outside of the steel and the core stays the same. now will this harden enough to get a edge. some people have said that it will harden deep enough to get a edge but after sharpening a couple times you will pass that and dig into the soft part. Now i have to say i aint a pro but i am pritty good at sharpening (at both flat stones and sometimes use the "edge pro system") so i think i can file it to the point that after its hardened i could just shave off a tiny layer to get a edge. also i dont plan on using this knife all that much so i dont think ill sharpen it all that often. so you guys think this could work to at least get a edge at starting point and just not sharpen that much? ohh also ...if you were to forge a piece of steel and fold it over and over and everytime put a lil charcoal powder inbetween each fold would this raise the carbon content to a acceptable level? thanks again guys sorry if this has been answered but i couldnt find much and every one said something different.
 
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