Help with REVOLUTIONARY WAR SABER

L

lumhechati1

Joined
Apr 18, 2015
Messages
11
I bought a few pieces and 1 i took to museum and was told it's a REVOLUTIONARY WAR SABER the grip is ivory and there is a maker mark on the D knuckle guard it's still really sharp cut my hand handling it can or would anyone help confirm period and help condition and maybe marker mark.Maybe help with who can repair or restore it close to Georgia thank you and God Bless trying to pictures and no luck here's my email and ill send pics. creek1007@gmail.com.com. thanks Roy
 
Welcome aboard

Here are some of the pictures.

Nice sword. The FT is likely for Francis Thurkle and the style of sword post dates the revolution by a few years. The style would be classified with the British 1788 patterns and common from then to the first decade of the 19th century.

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I have a strikingly similar hilt on a spadroon blade marked to Woolley. Both were working/selling in Birmingham and cutlery row shops shared a lot of stuff in those years.
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Considering the condition, conservation is the order of the day. It will never be shiny and look right at the same time. There are several de-corroding tricks and one I tried recently does very well. Any section where you see red rust, soak paper towels in white vinegar, then let it set for a bit. Unwrap, then wipe down with a clean rag and a drop of light oil. You can also scrub a bit with fine wire wool. Bronze wool is better. Use light oil with them. Kitchen scrubbies. I use copper Chore Boy. Blue pot scrubbies. Really anything softer than steel. I use the edge of a coin at times (sizing to fullers). You can do the blade in sections, or a pvc pipe capped on one end and soak the whole blade. One person mentioned this stuff, which seems to work.
http://www.evapo-rust.com/
http://www.swordforum.com/forums/showthread.php?118195-White-vinegar-as-rust-remover
http://www.swordforum.com/forums/sh...emoval-and-the-sword-of-an-officer-of-Sarawak

Trying to completely restore it unnecessary in my opinion. Don't have anyone monkey wrench a fix to the grip. Trying plastics to patch it only shows it. Originally the blade was seated to the guard with a piece of felt, therefore the gap. If you want, find a piece of red felt and antique that, cut an oval and slit for the blade. If the grip and hilt rattle, I use super glue, the runny stuff and drip it down the tang and in this case, you could put a dab between the grip and backstrap.

I won't go much further regarding my own shop of horrors but remove/stop the red rust then minimize any other work. It is a great sword and will display well.

Cheers

GC
 
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Found out it was made Francis THURKLE from the touch mark late 1700s will removing the rust hurt any value?
 
Most serious collectors would rather see it as it is. Just wiping it down with a rag and oil wouldn't hurt.. Don't take a buffer to it.

Cheers

GC
 
0000 steel wool and mineral oil to neutralize/kill any active red rust.

Never-dull is really just Brasso-soaked cotton. Great for getting a shine that rusts/corrodes/oxidizes/clouds over/patinas again as soon as atmospheric moisture hits the metal. Just ask all the Navy squids that have to polish all the "brightwork" as brass is called around their ships. :D

Vinegar will just create a false patina.

Just my opinion, but I don't think serious collectors do want "bright and shiny like new". I know I prefer a solid, honest, working finish/patina to an obviously false shiny one. Let's be real - no 100 or 200 year old anything is going to be or remain "like new" even if it just sat in a box. I could be wrong about their attitudes. I know that when I see something allegedly old looking bright and shiny, my first thought is "fake".

Polishing it up shiny would just mean more dulling, patina, rust etc overtime. Also polishing it up removes details. ANY polishing method removes metal from whatever is being polished. Shiny metal rusts/corrodes/oxidizes. Polishing removes the rusted/corroded/oxidized metal. Which then rusts/corrodes/oxidizes again. Rinse and repeat until the metal is gone.
 
I just found one from him exactly the same 100% handle/grip is Ivory.only this one had scabbard it sold without showing price. I'll list listing in a minute
 
Never-dull is really just Brasso-soaked cotton.
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ND is cotton, white spirits, clay and silica. Avoid using wire wool (bronze or iron) on the hilt if trying to clean that. If you are headed in that direction, Noxon will loosen dirt (oxalic acid/potato juice) then gently wipe (aluminum oxide) it has a gentle abrasive. the way it was gilded is fairly sturdy but that one looks like a lot has rubbed off (but mebbe not). Intact, they are quite brilliant. Here is my other Wooley blade sword in fired gilt.

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Vinegar will just create a false patina.
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And then easily rubbed with Simi-Chrome or Noxon, or even just cloth. The blade in question is quite oxidized and will never be smooth without heavier abrasives.

Each to their own at that point. I dislike the wire wool and oil method as quite messy and with "steel" wool, one is pushing a lot of metal around in a slurry with the oxidation, rather than simply wiping the rust off. It does though grind the rust off quickly, leaving deeper pits you can't dig out with wool alone. Similarly with etched blades.

I have a Thurkle eagle pommel that was in a fire. The only reason I cleaned the hilt was that all the gilt was still there. This was in progress. The blade is cracked and the ivory falling apart. The soot lifted right off after letting it set with Noxon.

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Again, it's really a judgement call. If selling just wipe it down with a cloth and light oil.




Cheers

GC
 
I really like it's my first authentic early sword and I want to keep it,as gives me something to do between my cancer surgeries. I'd like to restore to a decent shape without losing a lot of original condition can or should the handle be repaired??? Maybe also what kind of value would this have????? Is it considered a Saber or a Hanger???
 
Nice swords what are you gonna do on the one that's burnt? ?? Is it repairable? Really like the lions head.
 
There is really no easy fix to the ivory. Every example I see that has been "repaired" shows it badly. I have been tempted at times because I have tinkered a bit with textures and colors. I had recently done a stag grip repair that came out beautifully but long cracks and big chips are really painstaking to make the fault disappear.

If the wire on yours can gently be wound back up the grip past the backstrap, that might be as easy as one drop of glue to tie it back. The wire had been gilded and will be very brittle.. Unfortunately almost impossible to clean the wire without staining the ivory. Please no more than a damp cloth and q-tips on the ivory and wire. Old ivory is very soft and will saturate with water, making it too easy to wear down. I have used vitamin E oil to feed bone and ivory grips. Old cutlery ivory in England was coming from the Russian mastadon mines, so many of these grips are eons old.

For the metal bits,first figure out whether you are looking at grime on the gilt or gilt worn down to the base metal. Start with just soap and water (don't soak the grip) and damp a cloth. Rub and see what you get. Or take my approach as outlined above but I knew what I was seeing.


Again, the blade is shot. I have outlined some options above. Google sword conservation and restoration and you will find hundreds of fairly solid opinions. I have been working with old swords quite awhile and in each instance have evaluated options and or intent. Many get nothing but that initial basic cleaning, others to the point where I have taken stones and abrasive papers to the blades. To return that blade to an original look would make it look not like it used to. A lot of metal to regrind that blade. One decorroder or another abrasive process would brighten it up a bit.

I don't like to say my way is the only way, as there are so many options and I add more to my own little shop of horrors all the time. I have found Styrofoam hot cup crumbs and superglue with some color can simulate almost any organic but one often only gets one shot. I have used coffee grounds and a number of other things laying about ;) I used that mixed with brown shoe polish and superglue to do a crack in a horn grip. Almost got it right. Looks better now ten years later.

Go slow

GC
 
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Hi, they are both eagle pommel swords, just of different artists as it were. There are many types and many hundreds of variations, Eagles are my passion. The burnt sword also has a cracked blade, so it is really to have more for appreciation, rather than any further cleaning. Here at the top of the rack with that other and others I have adopted.

uc


The "lion" eagle was pristine when I found it and it had been lightly varnished back in the day, likely just put away and passed along for generations. That Woolley is from just past the turn of the 19th century, about 1806.

uc


I tend to jump on bargains but I have had to slow down. One Christmas, it truly was for me in finding back to back, pristine with scabbards old swords.

First an 1818 Starr nco artillery/infantry sword with the original frog for suspension as well.

uc


Then a 25" blade nco sabre from about the same period as your sword, likely never even carried and may have been considered a second in its time with a bit of a corkscrew to the blade. Minty and it was cheap.

uc


Finally one I had worked on quite a bit to make it prettier. It had a decent base to work with. Here during the blade polishing stage but before doing the horn grip repair. The blade had been mangled by someone with a grinder and the pommel really grungy. Again, another fire/mercury gilt job.

uc



I have some folders uploaded if you want to browse them. These are only a portion of what I have archived images for. My passion really is eagle pommels but I have had some other serious interests in old swords.

The Eagles 1.0 version
https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/0B9AOFMA8y3ODNllwS21ja1FuVmM?usp=sharing

Spadroons, I am loony for spadroons, an old folder.
https://drive.google.com/drive/fold...FWdlFIOGpFaWJfd2pOdk41Q09jOXdyODQ?usp=sharing

Some other old sabres
https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/0B9AOFMA8y3ODWHhjMUVoLWhrZjQ?usp=sharing

One of my haphazard documents folders. There is a lot of reading material there.
https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/0B9AOFMA8y3ODN2hkZzNEOURZY3M?usp=sharing

Good luck going forward. A lot of my research and archiving has been since a stroke, then cardiac collapse followed by a bone infection and amputation. One day at a time my friend and many happy returns.

Cheers

GC
 
WOW!!!!!! Awesome swords I'm drooling,VERY VERY IMPRESSIVE. I suffered a massive heart attack 2 years ago and a stroke,then lung cancer and now also skin cancer 'one day at a time and besides we won't go till God is ready.:) I can't. Get over how pristine your swords are.
 
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