Help with scales on full tang knife...

D

DHackney

Joined
Jul 12, 2004
Messages
178
Hello folks,

I'm getting close to adding the scales to a knife that I nearly finished this weekend and need some advice.

I bought a pair of jigged bone scales from Pop's Knife Supplies (very helpful and likeable guy) and am in a bit of a quandry on how to go about getting these scales on my full tang knife. I have no problem understanding on how to do this for scales that are flat on both sides but am uncertain on how to accomplish this with scales that have uneven surfaces on one side.

I'm sure this is a no-brainer but I'm in the no-brain phase at present :(

Thanks and best regards,
Dana Hackney
Monument, CO
 
I'm not sure either. I'd lik eto see what others have to say. Can you grind it flat?
 
I'm not sure exactly what you mean, but if these are natural antler, with a hollow, pithy interior, then they should be fairly flat, but may be warped.

I'd sand the tang side with very coarse sand paper attached (glued)to a flat surface, such as a thin piece of plexiglass.

Sand heavily, until at least the 4 corners are flat. It doesn't matter if the inside is a little hollow. All the natural antler scales I've ever used required this treatment before fitting to the tang.

When you epoxy the scales to the tang, use enough epoxy to fill the hollow areas. If there is a little area along the outside of the tang where the scales don't quite contact the spine, the epoxy will squeeze out and fill those areas.

Sometimes it helps to add a colored spacer between the scale and tang. :)
 
Are you asking how to drill the pin holes perpendicular to the flat side? this would also apply to Stag scales. Good question I have never seen it discussed. Gib
 
Gib, you hit the nail on the head. The scales I have are flat on one side but I am not sure how to get the holes drilled correctly(straight/perpendicular) as the outside of the jigged bone (antler looking) are contoured to look like antler material, and I don't want to flatten them out. I'd like to maintain the appearance of the stag material.

I hope I'm making more sense this try.

Many thanks,
Dana
 
I think I know what you're talking about and I'll tell you what I do if you promise not to laugh too much. I was faced with the same problem making my first stag handled folder, how to transfer holes from the frame to the irregular shaped stag. With wood or other flat materials it's easy, just get them flat, clamp them on, turn it over then drill. I tried finding a solution online and in the books and videos that I have but no luck. I know there's a better, easier way out there and when I hear it I'll go "duh" why didn't I think of that!

I take my drill press vice and open the jaws to a little under the width of the handle and lay a piece of cellophane on top, take a glob of modeling clay, roll it up into an oblong ball and squash it on the vice jaws to at least the length of your handle and so it hangs on to both jaws for the width. Lay a piece of cellophane over the clay and press your clamped up frame and handle material into the clay to make a nice stable impression. Since the flat frame is facing up you can now use 2 bubble levels at either end of the frame to make sure it's parallel to the drill table. After you get it level remove the handle from the clay, carefully remove the clay from the vice, bake the clay for a few minutes and you have a perfect mold of the handle material with built in ledges to rest on your vice jaws. Just put the slightly hardened clay back on your vice, place your handle into the mold, check the levels and drill, repeat for other side. This sounds like a lengthy process but it only takes a few minutes to do.
 
would simply clamping the scale in a mill vise and making sure the scale is exactly perpendicular to the drill bit work too? I've already drilled the holes in the tang and could scribe the hole placement in the back/flat side of the scale and then drill after doing the above. I'm sure I'm missing something here but thought I'd run this by you all.

Thanks Dave,
Dana
 
Dana, if you are speaking of drilling through the scale with no support on the bottom of the hole, be wary of chunking out little pieces of the scale when the bit comes through. Very sharp bits are in order. Drilling an undersized hole then flipping the scale over and redrilling to size from the "outside" might save from some unsightly chipping.

Dave's idea of using clay is a good one. :) Depending on the clay, you might not have to even bake it.

BTW: Dave's idea about using a couple bubble levels is also excellent. Anyone who doesn't have them should keep a couple inexpensive bullseye levels around the shop for situations like this.
 
When I attach my scales to the tang, I shape the the front of the scale nearest the riccaso then I epoxy the scale to the tang and hold it in place with Vise-clamps. Once it has dried I then drill my handle holes. I rough shape the handle around the tang with a dremel and then attach the other scale in the same way as the first. When the second side has dried, I drill completely through the handle holes and finish shaping the complete handle with the dremel and hand sanding. Hope that makes sense
Scott
 
I'm cutting and pasting all these replies and will make myself a hard copy of them all so I can have the instructions in front of me when I work. Necessity IS, indeed, the mother of invention.

Thanks again folks!

Dana Hackney
Monument, CO
 
Dana, I guess you could use a good quality, zero play mill vise and square up the sides of the scale material. I use Mike's method of drilling a smaller hole first in other drilling applications to avoid blow out. If for an example I'm drilling a 3/16th hole, I'll insert a 3/16th pivot pin that has a smaller interior diameter and use the largest drill bit that will fit that diameter to use as a centering guide for the first smaller hole, then flip it over and drill the correct size larger hole through the top. That way I know my larger hole is centered correctly.

I've never made a fixed blade so I think in terms of thinner folder materials and my methods may not work for a fixed blade.

I agree Mike, those bullseye levels do come in handy.
 
One other note. When I drill the holes on the drill press, I have the drill operating at the slowest speed and use very light pressure when drilling bone and horn. This has helped to keep it from blowing out or chipping on the opposite side.
Scott
 
Never done this but tell me what you think. Mark where the holes go on the flat side of the scale. Rotate the table around the drill press till the drill is in the open no table underneath it, Clamp a bar of steel on the table, drill a hole in the bar the size you are going to use in the scale or smaller so you can ream it to size. Center the mark on the bar in the hole you just drilled and clamp the scale on the BOTTOM of the bar with the flat side against the bottom of the bar. Drill carefully. I have thought about this and this is the way I would try it. Gib
 
for a while I did it by free hand holding then tried clay but the best way I've found(for me) is like Gib sugested. I got the idea from Wayne Godard's book, "Wonder of knifemaking"

I have a stand off for my mill when using it as a drill press to get a drill table the bits can reach. The stand off is made from 3/8" 6" flat bar welded into an H type beam, two flat pieces for top and bottom, two pies for the sides with enough room to bolt to my mill table. It's open on eigther end and I just hold the handle to the knife with a little supper glue-go easy, you want to be able to pop it loose afterward, then clamp knife and scale to the underside and drill the holes through the hole in the table for the bit. Drill one hole, unclamp, move the asembly, drill the next, ect. After doing both sides and cleaning up any super glue residue I epoxy and pin together, final clean-up is on the grinder and then to hand finishing. Only way I've found to do clean pins on rounded handle material.

One posibility is if you have a drill press that the table rotates, just rotate the table upside down.

And as was said, use sharp bits and go slow to keep chiping down.
 
First: Sharp drills,smaller pilot hole,drill slow.
Take a piece of 3" angle (steel or aluminum L angle) about 6" long.Clamp about 1" of the edge in the drill vise and drill a 3/8" hole in the center of the top (file the burr smooth on the tear out).Mark your pin hole locations on the flat side of your scales.Place the scale on the bottom side of the hole you drilled (the larger hole allows you to see the mark easily) and either hold by hand or clamp with strong spring clamps.Drill both holes in one scale,glue it up to the tang,glue the other scale on and drill completely through from the previously drilled side.(you can drill both sets of scales and glue and pin them at the same time if you are sure all things on your drilling station are perfectly square.Since this is usually not so,drilling through the second scale from the first guarantees alignment.) After drilling the completed handle,rough up the sides of the pins a bit with 100 grit sandpaper.Put some epoxy in the hole and rub a bit on the pin and insert it.Clean off the excess and let dry.Trim the ends close to the bone with nippers,and grind flush with the bone using cratex wheels in your dremmel tool.
 
Here's what I'd do.
On the drill press, line the tang up perpindicular to the drill bit you want to drill the scale with.
Line the bit up on one of the holes in the tang, raise the bit, tack glue the scale to the tang (one small drop of superglue or hotglue close to the site of the hole to be drilled).
Drill the hole through the scale, then remove the scale, realign to the next hole and repeat this process.
Turn the tang over and repeat the process.
This way, you will not have an unsupported breakout of the scale material.
Note: If you have a tang shape that cannot be easily clamped in a vice, glue the tang to a piece of softwood (pine or fir), then clampr the board in the vice, and then align everything. You can take the wood off the tang easily, but it will be secure enough to not move around on you.
Glue and pin.

Howie

Howie
 
Gib Guignard said:
OK now how do you do it with a tapered tang? The holes are not perpendicular to the tang.
Click to expand...
My guess: drill the holes before tapering the tang.
 
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