help with stainless steel compared to carbon steel knife, please.

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LEBRON JAMES

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Nov 12, 2011
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I am looking to buy a fixed blade knife for camping/bushcraft tasks. I have been reading different threads on this forum and most people prefer carbon steel for fixed blade knives, but i do not have any experience with CS. All of my knives are stainless steel. I have read that carbon steels have better edge retention for the same hardness as stainless, but less resistent to the elements. I live in Denver, and go backpacking up in the Rockies, where it is low humidity, so I think the carbon steel would not have too many issues with the elements, but I simply do not know very much about Carbon Steel. For a stainless steel knife, i was looking at the Gerber Prodigy in 420HC, $50 on ebay, and for Carbon steel blade, i was looking at the the KABAR Mark 1 in 1095 crovan, also $50 on ebay. The 5-5.25ich blade length is perfect for my tasks and around the $50-$60 price range is what i am willing to spend. If anyone could chime in on any info about carbon steel blades, it would be much appreciated.
 
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I am nonexpert on steels but from my experience iI would recommend you look at ESEE KNIVES, Ontario Rat or Ontario Ranger series, Becker Bk series. They have some great Carbon steel blades that are coated to help protect them from the elements. They all have small to large blades for almost whatever you can think of using them for. Only stainless knives I have are folders. I had a few cold steels san mai III blades but sold them. I like the ESEE 4. Great all around knife. All depends on your budget. Mora knives are many bushcraft favorites and very cheap to. If you can spend a little more look at the Swamp rat Ratmandu or Scrap yard Knives 511. Both have 5.5" blades and very well made! Excellent buys if you don't mind the wait. They are semi custom knives.
 
I'd say Kabar's 1095CroVan leaves Gerber's 420HC in the dust. Just keep your knife clean and dry(wipe of after using) during hikes and when you get home clean and apply a light coat of oil.
 
I agree that the kabar would be a better choice of the two. The knife is not going to waste away into nothing in a few days time. As said, just keep it clean by wiping any dirt or water off the blade before you sheath it and when you get home apply a thin coating of oil. Carbon blades are easy to sharpen and hold a great edge. Maintanence is not as bad as some would have you believe. I recommend you look into the Mora Robust knife and pick one up. Its carbon steel and only 20 bucks with shipping. Use it how you would any other knife and see if the maintanience is something you are ok with. Don't be fooled by the low price, it is an excellent quality knife and I'm sure it will become part of your kit. Here is a link: http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B00816PZ8W/ref=redir_mdp_mobile?ei=rhC-T5jiPOiW6AHs75hJ&sa=X&ved=0CEwQgwgwAA
 
I have heard nothing but good things from mora knives, but i have only ever seen them in stainless steel, and ontario and esee knives look sexy as hell, but i have seen that esee knives are twice the price. Around $150 for esee rat-5, waay out of my comfortable price range.
 
The big difference between stainless and carbon steels is that the cheap carbon steel is a lot tougher than the cheap stainless steel. IOW think of the cheap prybars you buy at the cheapest discount store- you can hammer on them pry with them, and not expect them to break. Now think of what would happen if you tried this with your cheap stainless steel knife.

I'm not sure how much tougher the really expensive stainless steels are.
 
In that price range, the Ka-Bar, Becker and Ontario carbon-steel knives are hard to beat. Most of them are coated so maintenance (beyond a simple wipe-down after use and touching up the edge -which is good for any knife) is basically a moot point.

I agree with the others that maintenance concerns are hugely over-rated anyway.
 
Bushcraft knife = BK&T.... best price to quality ratio you are going to find.

BK2 for the small stuff, BK9 for the hack n' Slash
 
While you're looking at KABARs, give Becker a shot. They're made by the same company with the same steel, but they're more suited for utility use than the Mark 1. They won't break the bank, either. :)
 
Hadji Flip Me Over said:
While you're looking at KABARs, give Becker a shot. They're made by the same company with the same steel, but they're more suited for utility use than the Mark 1. They won't break the bank, either. :)
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Above is the correct answer. Living in Co., you won't have a corrosion problem with non-stainless knives unless you put them away wet.
 
i am familiar with the BK2, or companion, a few buddies have them, and they seem to like them, but i will rarely need to baton logs for fire wood, as in the rockies, there are always small twigs and sticks to burn, and the BK2 is a little big and heavy for small, fine work. nd i dont want to bring more knives than i need. I prefer to use only one knife for all of the tasks, rather than bringing two or three knives that specialize in different tasks. Weight is big to me. I was looking at the small kabar, and it looks pretty good. 5inch blade in perfect, its serrated option can come in handy, great slicer, great for piercing, and also great for fine work. i.e. carving, and cleaning small game (if need be). It will also hold up to batoning small pieces of wood if need be. *Sigh* Oh i never thought making a decision on a fixed blade would be this difficult. haha
 
i have also noticed that becker has recently released a smaller bk16, anyone has have experience with this one?
 
LEBRON JAMES said:
i have also noticed that becker has recently released a smaller bk16, anyone has have experience with this one?
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Yup, one of the best knives on the market for the price. Here's one right after I got it. It has since been customized. Check out the Becker sub-forum. Those guys know their stuff on reasonably price knifes.

DSC00987.jpg
 
LEBRON JAMES said:
I have read that carbon steels have better edge retention for the same hardness as stainless
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That just isn't true. Firstly because 'carbon steel' as a term is rarely used to discuss actual carbon steel, and secondly because the sheer number of stainless and non-stainless alloys out there is far too wide to make such a blanket statement.

Between the two alloys you've mentioned, I'd go with the design/sheath you like better. The serrations, grind profile, etc are going to make a bigger difference.
 
Thank you guys for all of your comments. Since i posted this thread little over a week ago, i have being doing quite a bit of research, and have decided that i will be going with not only a high carbon fixed blade over a stainless, because of the 5,200ft and up altitude i live at (very very little humidity), but i have been looking at the ESEE 4 over the BK16. The canvas micarta is much better for handle material over BK16's zytel, the sheath is so much more versatile because i will be wearing on my backpack shoulder strap tip-up for hiking and have heard nothing but good things from Rowan's HT. Not to mention the lifetime, transferable, no-questions-asked warranty. Cant be beat.

ESEE-4P-DT.jpg
 
I think the esee 4 is a good choice. For me it was between the bk 16 and the esee. I ended up with the bk16 because i saw it on the exchange and it's cheaper than the esee. I feel the same way you do about the bk16 sheath but i'm having a kydex sheath made and it will still be less expensive than the esee. I gotta say the handle on the 16 is really comfortable I haven't had the chance to really use either either knife but from my brief fondling i think the bk16 is more comfortable. I do find the ESEE 4 to be a bit more attractive though. ESEE might have the better warranty, at least in theory, but i've never heard of becker turning down a legitimate warranty claim. Guy i knew beat his becker against a rock (by accident) and put a huge chip in the blade. Becker replaced the knife with no questions and this obviously wasn't legitimate use. Can't go wrong with either knife.
 
I have a BK16 and I agree that micarta scales would be better than the stock scales. So, once I finish torturing, er, um, I mean modifying my Cold Steel Recon Tanto, I'm making myself a set of micarta scales for the Becker. It'll be the third Becker I've done.
 
fatherhudson said:
I think the esee 4 is a good choice. For me it was between the bk 16 and the esee. I ended up with the bk16 because i saw it on the exchange and it's cheaper than the esee. I feel the same way you do about the bk16 sheath but i'm having a kydex sheath made and it will still be less expensive than the esee. I gotta say the handle on the 16 is really comfortable I haven't had the chance to really use either either knife but from my brief fondling i think the bk16 is more comfortable. I do find the ESEE 4 to be a bit more attractive though. ESEE might have the better warranty, at least in theory, but i've never heard of becker turning down a legitimate warranty claim. Guy i knew beat his becker against a rock (by accident) and put a huge chip in the blade. Becker replaced the knife with no questions and this obviously wasn't legitimate use. Can't go wrong with either knife.
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The warranty is basically the same, but becker's warranty is non-transferable, so if i buy it on ebay, which is what i am going to do, Becker's warranty will be void. Sure, the ESEE 4 is $40 more, but if i put micarta scales on it, thats about $30, and if i get a new sheath with molle locks, or a tek lock, thats another $40, thats $40 more than the ESEE with equal features, plus, Rowan heat treat is better, the blade coating on the ESEE is better, and when i go backpacking, the ESEE will be my largest blade, so im going to whale on it, but i have a lifetime, transferable, no-questions-asked warranty, so i dont have to worry about it. Wow that probably made me sound like an ESEE representative, haha.
 
You made a great choise with the ESEE 4 . You get what you pay for . I own mostly Busse and Buss kin knives (very pricy but very good) , but I also have2 ESEE Izula's and they are fantastic little knives . You'll never regret buying a good quality knife .


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