Help with tempering 1095

U

Union Creek

Joined
Feb 3, 2000
Messages
17
I am forging 1095 into "period" trade knives using a propane forge. I heated them until they were non-magnetic and then quenched in 125 degree oil. When I checked them with a file, the file cut right in. When I quench them should I check them with a magnet and then put them back in for a little while.

Thanks,
bob
 
The short answer is probably. Check it frequently. That way you can tell when you're starting to get into the range. The carbon steels you and I are dealing with start to go non-magnetic a little before they are up into the mid to upper austenitic state. For instance, a plain carbon steel with a critical range of 1450 - 1500 F. will start to go non-magnetic at about 1335 F. So if you are checking it frequently, and you catch it just going non-magnetic, give it a little more time.

Ed Caffrey ... Are you out there? I think he can expand on this, or maybe even correct me.

Terry Primos
 
Bob, I think you are right. I read in a recent post, I believe its the O1 vs. 1095 post, that 1095 has about a 2 second window to get into the quench. The steel, especially if it is thin, will lose heat rapidly while you are checking with the magnet so that may be your problem. Also are you sure you have 1095?-Guy Thomas
 
Yep, there are a lot of variables here. There's a bunch of things that can foul it up. Blade not to austenizing temp, didn't get the blade to the quench soon enough, vapor jacket insulating blade in the quench, too much viscosity in the quench, and more.

 
if you can read steel colers you dont need a magnet get it above the red coler into the yellow state then quench in lite oil

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All that is not Given Is Lost
 
i wanted to see if my post worked as i had los my pass word anyway you are not tempering your blade at this time you are hardining it you need to temper it after it has cooled down

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All that is not Given Is Lost
 
Seeing this was a tempering thread I have a question on 1095.
If the back of a blade is diferentually temperd/drawn softer with a torch, will the temper line still show if the blade is cold blued with 44-40 gun blue to slow the corrosion process? Does anyone know, has anyone tried? If it does show I think it would make a sweet fighter/combat knife if matched with CF scales. The blade is already ground and awaiting HT.

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Robert
Flat Land Knife Works
rdblad@telusplanet.net
http://members.tripod.com/knifeworks/index.html
 
Thanks for all the replies.

The problem I think could be the time span between removing the blade from the forge and getting into the oil. I will try and re-harden it tomorrow and see what happens.

Thanks again.

Bob
 
Gerome, if you do the hardening without a magnet, at least to start with, you cannot know when it will be at its critical temp. If you change lighting conditions of where you are hardening, it will change the color of the steel at the same temperature. ( a very expensive lesson for me when I first started). If you only work with one steel and have eased into the critical temp. range by repeated attempts so as not to go over (which causes large grain growth) the critical temp., then it is possible to repeat the procedure with fairly good results. I "always" quench on the rising temp. I also heat my quench a lot hotter too but usually 140 to 160 deg. will be sufficient.
I also think that the time/temp curve is about 1 second instead of 2. I do know that it is very fast. If you harden the whole blade, then you can put the edge in a pan of water to draw the back to soft. Or you can only quench the edge.

D Dockrell, after the heat treat and the blade is finished sanding, if you will etch the blade in acic for 1 to 3 min. That is usually long enough to cause a difference in the surface of the blade. Steel wool lightly and the blueing should show a difference. You may have to etch longer, depending on the strength and temp. of the acid, to get the effect you want. It may also depend on the blueing (hot or cold).
Hope this helps.

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Ray Kirk http://www.tah-usa.net/raker

[This message has been edited by raker (edited 07-06-2000).]
 
Dave Ellis, ABS, Mastersmith here. Always use a magnet and when the piece reaches critical (nonmagnetic) Heat a bit more and quench immediately (you can use auto trans, fluid mixed with 30 weight oil as quenchant). Keep blade completely immersed under the oil untill smoke clears and check with a new file, if not hard either non high carbon steel, not hot enough to harden.Try this, use the rosebud tip on an oxyacetaline torch to heat only the cutting edge to a nice even nonmagnetic temp. Quench the whole blade as above, check with magnet. As for temper lines on blued blades I doubt it. 5160 and 52100 have a more visible temperline than 1095. Etch the blade in ferric chloride to bring out temperline. Feel free to contact me with any questions.
Dave Ellis, ABS, M.S. http://www.mastersmith.com
Temper in a toaster oven at approx. 375 for 45 mins. to an hour (you are looking for a nice straw color, use your eye more than the timer and adjust your heat accordingly)
Dave
I do this three times (tempering)

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Hello,

I just finished my HEAT TREAT video a few days agao, i show in it how to harden and temper 5160 , 01 and also the 10 hundred series steels,,, ie,,,,1095. Email me if interested in it.

regads,,,,,, Allen Blade

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Allen Blade
Spokane,WA USA

" You can make great knives and sell a few, Or make Great AFFORDABLE knives and sell many"
WEB SITE : http://hometown.aol.com/bladecutlery/index.html
 
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