Help with titanium

L

lepepwerna

Joined
Jan 7, 2012
Messages
19
Alright, so maybe you guys have seen my other WIP thread, and this is related but I thought I'd put it in a separate thread because maybe if I get an answer it would help someone since I couldn't find anything in my search of the forum.

My problem is that I have some thicker titanium that I intend to make into two frame lock knives, and I don't want to go through a million blades on my jigsaw. Is there any better way of cutting it besides going and buying a bandsaw? Frustratingly I do have access to a bandsaw, but it is a wood cutting bandsaw and much too fast for cutting metal. I also don't want to modify it because it is my fathers and probably about 60 years old.

So yea, any tips for cutting titanium? Are higher tpi blades better? I figured it should be around the same as steel, so I was using 14-21 tpi blades on my jigsaw, which works fine for the steel, and it does cut the titanium, but it eats blades like they're nothing. So any advice is welcome.
 
When I needed to cut Ti, I took it into the machine shop at school and attempted to cut it with the $10k bandsaw there. After I tore the teeth off 3 blades the instructor told me to turn the blade around and turn the badsaw up as fast as it would go. It is commonly called friction cutting. It cut like butter and I was able to get through all I needed. I later used it at the shop I worked at for cutting thin stainless stock. Now you need to make sure the saw is clean of all wood saw dust. Also clean your saw after using any one type of material. Sparks with steel dust and aluminum or ti could be a hot subject here on BF. There are others who will let you know how they cut it but this worked great for my project.
 
What I was getting to is you could probably use your wood bandsaw for this and friction cut it.
 
Chuck you type faster then I great minds think alike lol.
Yep I do this might sound crazt to you but I would get one of your dads old band saw blades but it on his wood band saw with the teeth running the with the theet up instead of the teeth down. What you will be doing is called friction cutting or sawing it makes alot of noise and maybe some sparks so make sure you clean the inside of the of saw of saw dust or you might have a small fire. Im sure your thinking this guy is crazy buy it does work well and will make your cuts you need..
Brett
 
That does sound absolutely nuts, but I'll have to give it a try. Thanks guys for the fast suggestions. I have a few blades that I could try this with. I am guessing it produces a lot of heat though?
 
The heat is in the sparks. The ti stays pretty cool. The blade does get hot but only on the teeth. I was able to cut 3/4" steel with this method. The blades lasted about an hour or so but we were really pushing them to the enth degree.
 
Alright, so I gave what you said a try, and it works fine for the thinner Ti that I have (.06") but the thicker stuff I need for my frame locks (.12") doesn't want to cut unless I press hard enough for the blade to come out of track, and then I think its only melting, not really cutting. Does this mean my bandsaw is not fast enough for this method? Or am I doing it wrong? I turned the blade so the teeth run in the opposite direction. Did you mean to use the back of the blade? That made even less sense to me, since it would mean I'd be cutting the guide wheel, so I assumed that was not the case.

I also learned today that the motor currently on the bandsaw is from a washing machine, so I might not feel to bad modifying it after all. Any suggestions for a motor and vfd?
 
12345678910 said:
The absolute cheapest motor and vfd will cost minimum double a HF portaband and still not have proper guides and such.


I'd try one of these
http://www.harborfreight.com/power-tools/band-saws/portable-variable-speed-bandsaw-47840.html

If you're just doing a couple, how about just using a hacksaw?
Click to expand...

As far as the motor/vfd I was just going to attach it to the bandsaw I already have, thus no need for new guides/wheels/etc.

As far as using a hacksaw, I could, but it would take a long time, especially with the thicker material I have now. And last time I tried that I went through way too many hacksaw blades. Right now I'm just looking for a better way to do this.
 
lepepwerna said:
As far as the motor/vfd I was just going to attach it to the bandsaw I already have, thus no need for new guides/wheels/etc.

As far as using a hacksaw, I could, but it would take a long time, especially with the thicker material I have now. And last time I tried that I went through way too many hacksaw blades. Right now I'm just looking for a better way to do this.
Click to expand...

I understand what you meant.

My point was that for $85 you can get a working portaband

A different motor on the bandsaw will be at least 85 used, to a few hundred new
a VFD would be minimum 100, wires and such 20 more


After all that, you have spent a few times that portable bandsaw and

the wood band saw will still be missing the guides that would normally be on every metal cutting bandsaw.

That portaband is the best value I've found.



A good high tension hacksaw and good bimetal blades will cut a lot.
 
12345678910 said:
I understand what you meant.

My point was that for $85 you can get a working portaband

A different motor on the bandsaw will be at least 85 used, to a few hundred new
a VFD would be minimum 100, wires and such 20 more


After all that, you have spent a few times that portable bandsaw and

the wood band saw will still be missing the guides that would normally be on every metal cutting bandsaw.

That portaband is the best value I've found.



A good high tension hacksaw and good bimetal blades will cut a lot.
Click to expand...

What's the difference between the guides on a metal band saw and a wood one?


Also, has anyone tried something like this? I came across it looking for a new hacksaw+blades.

And I may have found an answer. I think I was thinking too complicated with the VFD + motor combo. I could just use a rheostat on the existing motor, or a I found a new 1/2 hp single phase motor, 3450 RPM for $30. All I'd need to do is get a pulley, or use the one off the existing motor. Then I could turn down the speed for metal cutting, or turn it back up for when I'm wood cutting. Am I missing something or is it that simple?
 
lepepwerna said:
What's the difference between the guides on a metal band saw and a wood one?


Also, has anyone tried something like this? I came across it looking for a new hacksaw+blades.

And I may have found an answer. I think I was thinking too complicated with the VFD + motor combo. I could just use a rheostat on the existing motor, or a I found a new 1/2 hp single phase motor, 3450 RPM for $30. All I'd need to do is get a pulley, or use the one off the existing motor. Then I could turn down the speed for metal cutting, or turn it back up for when I'm wood cutting. Am I missing something or is it that simple?
Click to expand...

A wood bandsaw relies on the blade riding the center wheel crown.

A metal bandsaw has guides on both sides of the blade, both above and below the cut.
It also has guides on the spine, to support the push of the material against the blade.

Try going to a machinery supplier and look at examples of each.



A rheostat - router speed control, will only work on a universal motor, one with brushes like a router
Otherwise, it will just smoke a normal motor.

You could install pulleys, but it will take more than one reduction, ie multiple shafts, bearings and pulleys.
Unless you can get those free, again, a porta band is cheaper and simpler.



None of this is new, if you search, you can find hundreds of instances of this discussion with better explanations.
 
My bandsaw has guides on both sides, above and below the cut, and a guides along the spine. I did some research, and found that this bandsaw possibly had a gearbox at one time allowing it to run at metal cutting speeds. I guess that got lost when the original motor did.
 
There are other ways to slice difficult metals. Electro discharge wire cutting, laser cutting, and water jet cutting all come to mind. You may be able to find a local shop that does this kind of work for a reasonable fee.
 
As you found it appears your bandsaw is not quite fast enough to friction cut .125 ti. I do not know your configuration either so if you do not have top and bottom and rear guides you may not be able to push hard enough. The wood bandsaw my FIL has does have all the guides but I do not think it runs fast enough either. IIRC we ran at 6000+ fpm. But I did not try to cut .125ti either. FWIW I would avoid the HF portaband, had one and I was not at all satisfied with its performance. I even got a Milwaukee and it was better but still not what I needed. Ended up with a 7x12 horizontal vertical. Spent a bit more but it works great. I have not tried to cut TI on it though. I would get a fine blade and cut it on the flats rather than on the edge. I have cut TI in the mill. Set it up with an aluminum backer. Set a slitting saw up with a 32tpi blade and mist coolant. Ran the rpms for the cutter I was using and Ti in the formula. Set the auto feed to run as slow as it would and cut really nice. Took about 15 minuted to run through a 12" piece one pass. But I just set it and let it run. There again it was only .0625, I was cutting strips for tig welding. Anyhow good luck, I hope you either can solve your problem or find someone to cut it for you.
 
A C Richards said:
As you found it appears your bandsaw is not quite fast enough to friction cut .125 ti. I do not know your configuration either so if you do not have top and bottom and rear guides you may not be able to push hard enough. The wood bandsaw my FIL has does have all the guides but I do not think it runs fast enough either. IIRC we ran at 6000+ fpm. But I did not try to cut .125ti either. FWIW I would avoid the HF portaband, had one and I was not at all satisfied with its performance. I even got a Milwaukee and it was better but still not what I needed. Ended up with a 7x12 horizontal vertical. Spent a bit more but it works great. I have not tried to cut TI on it though. I would get a fine blade and cut it on the flats rather than on the edge. I have cut TI in the mill. Set it up with an aluminum backer. Set a slitting saw up with a 32tpi blade and mist coolant. Ran the rpms for the cutter I was using and Ti in the formula. Set the auto feed to run as slow as it would and cut really nice. Took about 15 minuted to run through a 12" piece one pass. But I just set it and let it run. There again it was only .0625, I was cutting strips for tig welding. Anyhow good luck, I hope you either can solve your problem or find someone to cut it for you.
Click to expand...

Chuck

You're comparing an $ 85 saw to a $1,000 saw

I don't have any doubts that it's better.
 
Actually the comparison was with the Milwaukee portaband which was $250. But still neither performed great. Got rid of the HF protaband and sold the Milwaukee. The 7x12 I picked up new from HF for $650. I agree there is no comparison and I have not attempted to cut Ti on it. So it really does not matter in this sense. The only two ways I have successfully cut Ti was with friction cutting and a slitting saw on the mill. As was mentioned water jet or laser would be great but can be expensive for one off products.
 
I have a Milwaukee portaband that I cut .125" titanium with and it works very well. Not even thinking of looking for something else.
 
Just for those without a power saw...

I use a Lenox Bimetal hacksaw blade and it works great on Titanium. I think they are 22 teeth per inch.

It isn't the fastest method but it isn't bad either.
 
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