Henkels Twin Signature vs Artifex

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diesel79

Joined
Jun 14, 2013
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I received a block of henkels twin signature (stamped blades) knives as a wedding gift a couple of years ago. I believe they are the 11 piece set in the $300 range. Anyways I have the urge to try a new chefs knife. I am looking at the Richmond Artifex in AEB L steel.

Would this be a step up or more of a lateral move? Henkels doesn't really give specifics on their steels.

I'm looking in that $100 range. The Seto knives on the Spyderco website have also peaked my interest. Anyone hadn't some experience with those?

I'm open to suggestions. I've been alot of reading, my head is spinning from all of the options.
 
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in terms of performance, well... you get what you pay for. but there are other knives at the artifex price point for the more advanced user to be more satisfied with their purchase.

there will be a pretty good jump in performance in any knife, even on better knives of the same price point when compared to the artifex. except when one compares them to japanese knives of similar pricing.
 
Don't expect this to be done without some serious thinning behind the edge before. My problem is not so much the Artifex comes with a poor edge. That's not uncommon at this price point. But a customer should know he has a few hours of work to do.
With an average Japanese knives he is done within 15 minutes.
 
Benuser said:
Don't expect this to be done without some serious thinning behind the edge before. My problem is not so much the Artifex comes with a poor edge. That's not uncommon at this price point. But a customer should know he has a few hours of work to do.
With an average Japanese knives he is done within 15 minutes.
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Here's the thing:
The grind IS symmetrical, it says so right on the website. And the reason why the edge is thick is because most knife makers have a broad consumer base in mind, mostly inexperienced or new chefs, who might not be so gentle with their knives.

Sharpening to a lower angle is the least of my concerns, mainly because AEB-L is a lot easier to sharpen than most japanese steels like VG-10, Aogami Super, and ZDP-189, while it can also take a lower angle edge as well at Rc 61. I guarantee you I could do that on my M390 Artifex in 5 minutes.
 
Artifex would be an upgrade to a block set of henkels.

they are a bit thick as someone said, for a beginner its good.

professionals prefer thinner blades.

work all day, see if you grab a heavier knife next time...
 
Professionals would buy a Richmond Laser.
Knife nuts would regrind an Artifex:D.

Speaking of which, I bought a 170mm Artifex Nakiri to do just that:thumbup:.
 
Noctis3880 said:
Here's the thing:
The grind IS symmetrical, it says so right on the website. And the reason why the edge is thick is because most knife makers have a broad consumer base in mind, mostly inexperienced or new chefs, who might not be so gentle with their knives.

Sharpening to a lower angle is the least of my concerns, mainly because AEB-L is a lot easier to sharpen than most japanese steels like VG-10, Aogami Super, and ZDP-189, while it can also take a lower angle edge as well at Rc 61. I guarantee you I could do that on my M390 Artifex in 5 minutes.
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I think Benuser was referring to thick-behind-the-edge (i.e. thickness at where the bevel shoulder transition to the blade grind) not the bevel angle. Artifex blade grind is sort like a low scandi, whereas a good gyuto should at least be ffg or best be zero-grind. Thinning a blade is not for beginner for sure or faint of heart. To thin the m390 version would take a long while even with good equipment on hand. However I still think Artifex m390 version offers good performance/value per price.
 
it is way over my budget, but the Kikuichi TKC at chef knives to go has caught my eye. It seems to get alot of positive reviews. Might just have to wait until my birthday next month, they are out of stock at the moment as well.
 
diesel79 said:
it is way over my budget, but the Kikuichi TKC at chef knives to go has caught my eye. It seems to get alot of positive reviews. Might just have to wait until my birthday next month, they are out of stock at the moment as well.
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I'm personally a bit weary about mystery steels or vague descriptions like "semi-stainless at Rc 61-62". At that price range I would consider the Moritaka 210mm Gyuto in Aogami Super Blue as an alternative.
 
Masamoto will spoil you.

It's pricy for a damn good reason.

Im a knifenut and a professional sushi chef, I want nothing less of masamoto or konosuke. Of course I use yoshi but they make blanks for masamoto...
 
I will have to look at those suggestions. What masamoto? I'm looking at chef knives to go and they have a few options.

The moritaka looks great too.

Thus is a tough decision.
 
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For $100 I would increase by budget by $8 and pick up a JCK Carbonext 210mm Gyuto. You'll never buy another German knife again... Great grind, gets scary sharp, semi-stainless so you don't have to really worry about it. Doesn't come with a great out of the box edge but then you're on a knife forum so you best damn be able to sharpen or be willing to learn.

http://www.japanesechefsknife.com/KAGAYAKICarboNextSeries.html#CarboNextSeries
 
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bluntcut said:
I think Benuser was referring to thick-behind-the-edge (i.e. thickness at where the bevel shoulder transition to the blade grind) not the bevel angle. Artifex blade grind is sort like a low scandi, whereas a good gyuto should at least be ffg or best be zero-grind. Thinning a blade is not for beginner for sure or faint of heart. To thin the m390 version would take a long while even with good equipment on hand. However I still think Artifex m390 version offers good performance/value per price.
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Maybe he and I didn't get the same Artifex, or maybe my M390 Artifex with the custom wood handle is ground differently, because the edge itself hardly looks thick, nor does the blade. But then again, I only have a Miyabi 7000MC 8" Chef's Knife to compare it to. But if I were to attempt to thin it out, my main concern would be more overgrinding and taking a chunk out of the edge rather than it taking too long.
 
Benuser said:
The Artifex comes very thick behind the edge, with an almost symmetric grind, a fatal combination with kitchen knives. A lot of work is to be done before you have a workable knife.


http://postimg.org/image/q75zpqzrz/
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I did the finish sharpening for Mark on many of his Richmond line of knives, your statements are a bit exaggerated to say the least.

The grind on his knives is 50/50 so symmetric is the correct term.

As for the knives,

All German knives use the same steel X50crmov15, at a hardness of 56-57.

The artifex AEB-L is much harder @ 60-61 and this factor alone will make the performance of the knife seem light years ahead of its German counterpart. The steel is also a joy to use and sharpen as it takes and holds one of the sharpest edges you will experience.
 
knifenut1013 said:
I did the finish sharpening for Mark on many of his Richmond line of knives, your statements are a bit exaggerated to say the least.

The grind on his knives is 50/50 so symmetric is the correct term.

As for the knives,

All German knives use the same steel X50crmov15, at a hardness of 56-57.

The artifex AEB-L is much harder @ 60-61 and this factor alone will make the performance of the knife seem light years ahead of its German counterpart. The steel is also a joy to use and sharpen as it takes and holds one of the sharpest edges you will experience.
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Oh I think Aogami Super Blue treated to Rc 63-64 would take and hold one of the sharpest edges I would experience. AEB-L just provides carbon steel-esque edge holding but without corrosion concerns, making it good for fruits without that metallic smell and taste the steel emits when I use my White steel Tojiro knife to cut a mango.
 
Matter of opinion, I feel white steel gets sharper than both :)
 
knifenut1013 said:
Matter of opinion, I feel white steel gets sharper than both :)
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Depending on how it's treated right;)?

That could be possible as a higher carbide content can prevent you from getting that ultimate sharpness, though I don't believe Aogami Super has much in that regard, and I frankly feel that my Gayle Bradley in CPM-M4 is just plain spooky sharp.

Still, I would prefer the Aogami Super as the higher hardness makes it better suited for super thin, 5 degrees per side edges.
 
Not really, white steel is the purest of carbon steels and by design made to take extreme levels of sharpness. But geometry plays a big role too, a GB will never get as sharp as a yanagi in any steel. White steel is also tougher so its less likely to chip unlike blue steel.

As for carbide content, I've never noticed it being a factor.
 
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