Hey, Jerry, what about the Geneva convention?

Walking Man

BANNED
Joined
May 28, 2003
Messages
9,606
You know something just hit me.
In other threads it's been mentioned that the Geneva convention states that knives that soldiers use may not be serrated. Has this been any kind of an issue with you?
I'm just wondering because I know the Terror Monkey and Narks have serrations, and other military knives that you make as well.
Just wondering. thanks.
 
u.s. "terrorist" policy kind of nullifies most of the geneva convention by way of "we said so.". but they may also be able to get around it (if that is a currently and still accepted law) by stating that its not a weapon.
 
SethMurdoc said:
u.s. "terrorist" policy kind of nullifies most of the geneva convention by way of "we said so.". but they may also be able to get around it (if that is a currently and still accepted law) by stating that its not a weapon.
I'd love to see how we worded that one ;) :D
 
Terror Monkey's are carried by Urban Counter Terrorism Teams in Isreal. Since it is in the arena of domestic security operations, I don't see it being an issue. Remember some how the U.S. manages to use 168gr BTHP .308, and that is not a violation.( and this decision was prior to President Bush) besides Terrorists are afforded no protection by anything in the Geneva Convention anyway. (just ask the guys at Gitmo :D )
 
Walking Man said:
You know something just hit me.
In other threads it's been mentioned that the Geneva convention states that knives that soldiers use may not be serrated. Has this been any kind of an issue with you?
I'm just wondering because I know the Terror Monkey and Narks have serrations, and other military knives that you make as well.
Just wondering. thanks.

I think that you must be trying for this annex to the Hague Conventions (only the two important lines included here):

****************
Art. 23. In addition to the prohibitions provided by special Conventions, it is especially forbidden
(e) To employ arms, projectiles, or material calculated to cause unnecessary suffering;
****************

If I remember correctly, it was interpreted to ban jagged bayonets and lances. Pretty much something intended to cause tearing wounds, like a harpoon for people.

The new Marine Corps bayonet, produced by Ontario, has serrations.

And, honestly, the knife I carry with me is intended as a tool. If I get into a situation where I need to use it to kill an insurgent, things are very, very bad. Lastly, if it comes down to a desperate situation (killing someone who is going to kill me), I would use whatever was at hand - be it a knife, rock, length of rebar, or e-tool.

A lot of interesting stuff gets passed around, on the urban legend level, about what the military can and cannot do.
 
powells85 said:
I'd love to see how we worded that one ;) :D


1,000+ pages of lawer jargon.

its been coming under more fire nowadays, but essentially by calling someone on the other side an "enemy combatant", we step past the geneva convention with has rules set for "prisoners of war". we dont keep prisoners of war - we keep enemy combatants. enemy combatants are always enemy combatants, and in the game of "terrorism" thats anyone, anywhere, any time.

it has however come under a lot of critisism and lot of court cases have been filed against the u.s. for holding people in methods against the geneva convention. the military tried to say that the supreme court had no say in what they did, especially on non us soil - and the supreme court doesnt like losing its check and balance position.



edited out comment on .308, as it was explained in post above :footinmou
it may just be that the geneva convention in that portion of combat is simply becoming outdated with the use of powder arms and bombs in combat. at the time it was written, edge inflicted wounds were much more widely used then now. like was said, if you pull a knife in the middle of a gunfight - you probably dont have anymore ammmo, and shhtf. a position most soldiers try very hard to stay out of (where as with trench fighting your kind of stuck with it).
 
"Do I need to use a Boat Tail for hunting?
NO, at practical hunting ranges a flat base bullet is as effective as a boattail. A boattail may be easier to load and has a slight advantage at extended ranges; however, it is much more important to select a bullet of proper construction for the game being hunted. Let's take three 30 caliber 180 grain bullets at 2700 FPS zeroed at 200 yards.

Partition Protected Point, BC .361 Drop at 400 yards = 27.08 inches

Partition Spitzer BC .474 Drop at 400 yards = 24.29 inches

BallisticTip Boattail BC .507 Drop at 400 yards = 23.76 inches

The difference of 3.32 inches equals a 10 yard error in range estimation at 400 yards. "

from what im seeing on google, looks kind of like the back end is slanted inward to help aerodynamics
 
Walking Man, I know you were just asking this question out of curiosity and not as a complaint against Busse or against serrations or anything, so please don't take the following rant as pointed toward you, as it is not--nor anyone else on this forum, whom I mostly see eye to eye with. Sorry guys, I just have to get this off my chest sometimes, or it will build up...

Does anyone think those terrorists in Iraq who SAWED and HACKED American NONCOMBATANT citizens' heads off in front of an Al Jizzeera film crew while they screamed in pain were in violation of any international human rights regarding torture, mutilation, or murder?!? Do these same people care whether those murderers had serrated edges on THEIR knives?

What kind of SICK, WARPED sense of fairness is this, that prefers to show these neck hacking, mosque hiding, women- and children-bombing dogs more concern, more compassion, more sympathy, and more benefit of the doubt than our own young American men and women who are risking their lives to free Iraqi people from a mad, megalomaniacal, murderous tyrant and now to establish a new constitutional, representative government of and by the Iqaqi people, particularly considering that 99% of said American armed forces are conducting themselves honorably, and themselves showing compassion and kind treatment to the local people whose freedom they have just won and are now defending?!?

The United States, and most of the western world as well, has many enemies, and the Geneva Convention rules of warfare DO NOT automatically apply to every one of them because many of our enemies DO NOT MEET THE CRITERIA set forth by the Geneva Convention itself in order for its rules to apply. This is where the general public doesn't have a clue. The U.S./Bush policy against terrorist groups who are openly hostile to our citizens is not wantonly violating Geneva Convention rules; Geneva Convention rules DO NOT APPLY here, and people need to stop assuming that they do! That's no less absurd than assuming that regular traffic laws apply on a NASCAR racetrack.

The unwashed masses love to recite DNC talking points about how the Bush admin. is blatantly ignoring Geneva Convention rules with regard to engaging the terrorists, but almost none of these people are even the slightest bit aware that there is a list of criteria that a group of combatants must meet before they may qualify for Geneva Convention treatment by the other side. One is that they must wear an easily recognizable/identifiable uniform (WHICH AL-QAEDA AND THE OTHER TERRORISTS REFUSE TO DO; ALWAYS CHOOSING LOCAL STREET GARB INSTEAD, TO BLEND IN WITH THE NONCOMBATANT LOCALS--IF ANYTHING, THIS WOULD QUALIFY EVERY ONE OF THEM FOR TREATMENT DUE TO SPYS AND TRAITORS).

Chainsaws have serrated edges, and every army has them. Do Geneva Convention rules apply to them? Looking at this another way, how many US soldiers have used a knife to saw off a body part of an enemy combatant in combat in Afghanistan or Iraq thus far? What about the serrated blade on the Leatherman's and Gerber multi-tools most soldiers now carry, or the serrated side edge of the US GI entrenching tools? Can we automatically assume that just because a soldier is equipped with or has access to a serrated blade or tool, that it is intended to be directly used against the enemy's physical bodies, or that such devices must automatically be classified as personnel weapons?

Now, peace and love to everyone, and Jerry, keep those serrated edges coming! Especially those wicked, Fear-Of-God-inspiring hand ground ones.
 
We say we are better. If we are going to say we are better, we damn well better act like were better. We went in there to get rid of scumbags and if we act like those scumbags we had no buisness riding our highhorse into Iraq.

We afford those bastards the luxuries of American treatment, not because we "care", but because we're better than that. We don't need to stoop to their level.

Ask the Marine Corps what there stance is on it. So Geneva Coneventon or not we shouldn't torture prisoners. They'll get there's eventually.
 
NervousXtian said:
We say we are better. If we are going to say we are better, we damn well better act like were better. We went in there to get rid of scumbags and if we act like those scumbags we had no buisness riding our highhorse into Iraq.

We afford those bastards the luxuries of American treatment, not because we "care", but because we're better than that. We don't need to stoop to their level.

Ask the Marine Corps what there stance is on it. So Geneva Coneventon or not we shouldn't torture prisoners. They'll get there's eventually.

Everything you stated is true. What's missing is how it relates to this thread.
 
If I remember correctly, the U.S.A. recognizes the Geneva convention but has never signed it.
If I am wrong about that then I am reasonably certain Jerry never signed such a document :)


The horror...the horror...
 
Racegunner that is a sweet avatar from Omega Man, i personally like the still when he is looking out the window with the B.A.R. that has the red light attached. I dont think it matters what the Convention says though. I beleive that somewhere it also states that a .50 cal cant be used against people only equipment like trucks etc... but your rifle is equipment so is your pack and hey if i happen to shoot 15 guys and hit a truck at the same time i was really shooting at the truck. War is war you do what you have to do to win. There is always a loophole.
 
Back
Top