HF 1x30 sucks!!!

W

Wowndeye

Joined
Apr 15, 2014
Messages
88
Really wishing I had a 2x72 right now!!!

Having made a couple of knives now and trying to improve my grinding technique with each one, I'm realizing a huge part of my battle is my little Harbor Freight 1x30. It seems to do fine as far as motor strength at the rate I'm pushing it but when it comes to lining up my plunge lines from side to side as well as getting them to match side to side, I'm realizing that due to the fact that each belt I put on tracks a little different, one exposing the right side of the "platen" and another exposing more of the left makes for inconsistent grinds. Adjusting the tension/tracking knob only does so much. If I can't get the belt to line up dead on with the platen, I end up with inconsistent grinds and the more time I spend trying to fix one side to match the other results in too much change and I have to go back to the other side to again try and fix/match it! Incredibly irritating!

I just recently received my first order of belts from Supergrit and got a few Ceramics of different grits, Trizact and some other higher grits and already snapped one Trizact due to the fact that it was jumping all over the place because I couldn't create enough tension to keep it steady and at the same time in the right position against the platen. I've tried a few of the other belts now and all of them fit differently and I'm super irritated that there's no way to separately adjust the tension as well as tracking! I feel like my investment in some good belts is now a waste of money possibly. I want to do exceptional work but doing it with this little POS is severely going to hinder that I've realized and has just added a lot of frustration to the learning process.

BTW, in respect to the belts and I can't believe the difference between a standard OA belt and these low grit Trizacts and Ceramics for stock removal! HUGE difference!!!

Any tips on dealing with the tracking and or tension? I really want to take advantage of these new belts but haven't figured out a solution.

Rant over! ;)
 
You are right it is not for stock removal. When you put enough tension on that particular grinder, enough for stock removal the belt does tend to jump around alot. I actually thought about getting rid of mine when I got the bigger Craftsman 2x42, still not the best, but at the time it was all I could afford.
In hind site I am glad I did not get rid of it. It works well for light touches and smaller stuff, things you do not need a thunderbolt grinder and a 60 grit belt.
It is also pretty good for sharpening were you do not want to take off goobs of metal.JMHO
 
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One big improvement is to take apart the tension mechanism and clean it, typically out of the box it really does not work. Second make sure the little backing plate is aligned with the belt when the belt is moving, sometimes you have to file out the holes to get it right,

Third, dont use it, it really does not work very well but you can make it a bit better.
 
I use one. It is a challenge to use. I got a variety of ceramic belts for it. Play with the tension adjuster knob and the screw that holds the entire assembly. I've seen guys just have that thing loose all the time, just being held in place by the tension of the spring. I looked at it as a personal challenge to make something that looks good with that pos grinder. You are only on your second knife. I am at about 6. Not far from you, but far enough to realize and figure something out to get that thing to work for me. Mostly I had to adjust my technique to deal with this grinder's nuances.
 
I used that grinder for one year before ordering a 2x72. To correct the tracking and stop some of the belt jumping was as simple as putting some tape over the tracking wheel (I used electrical tape specifically). While that worked a little bit, I had to really check alignment between the wheels and adjust the allen screws to correct alignment. Once I did that, I had pretty good results with tracking.

For your platen issue, you are going to have to adjust it with a few checks. For my 1x30, the platen wasn't at a true 90 degree angle. So I had to bend it carefully, or you could always make a new one out of some hardened steel. The other main issue, and the one that you are experiencing, is directly related to that problem. This is due to the fact that your platen isn't sitting properly on your grinder where it mounts to. To fix this, I had to take the platen off and grind it down on both sides to make the belt hang over each side. This will take a few attempts to get your grinder to the way you want it.

Here's my suggestion to you for right now, because I was there one year ago. Set your plunges with a small chainsaw file, maybe 6" or 8" (I think mine are 1/8" diameter). Use a file guide if you are not already. Once you have this step complete and your plunges are how you want them, go to the grinder for your basic stock removal (I'm assuming you're trying to flat grind). Get it to where you want the grind lines and then true it up with a 10" or 12" magicut file. This may take a bit of work, but this is where you truly start to understand the way a flat grind should look as opposed to your convex result from that grinder's "flat" platen. I got pretty good results with removing the table and freehand grinding. Just as I figured out my 1x30, I went and bought a Coote 2x72 with a 10" wheel. THe difference is immeasurable.
 
Use it get close to what you are shooting for, then: Build a file jig for the finishing touches. You will be amazed at what it, a file guide (can be a screw hehe) and a proper blade holder can do.

I know how you feel. My "grinder" is something I found in my dads garage. Its some weird format 5 inches wide and maybe 20 long belts. It has plastic 3 inch pulleys and the platen is on top and looks sort of like a moonscape with its dents and black molten plastic gunk buildup. It runs about as fast as a turtle.

As soon as I fully complete 10 knives I'm ordering a proper tool.

A good file is not slow at removing material. Block of aluminum with self adhesive sandpaper in place of the file for finishing. Its no high speed belt action but it will teach you a lot. It helped me very much. The first knife I made with one suddenly looked very nice. I could watch the TV in the reflection without the image distorting.

I made a small 6 inch skeletonized knife entirely with files and a saw and that jig yesterday in 3 hours. Only power tool I used was a handheld drill.

Here she is pre heat treat: Number 5

2nak0tv.jpg


2yo1vyd.jpg


Regards, Ben
 
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ev13wt said:
Use it get close to what you are shooting for, then: Build a file jig for the finishing touches. You will be amazed at what it, a file guide (can be a screw hehe) and a proper blade holder can do.

I know how you feel. My "grinder" is something I found in my dads garage. Its some weird format 5 inches wide and maybe 20 long belts. It has plastic 3 inch pulleys and the platen is on top and looks sort of like a moonscape with its dents and black molten plastic gunk buildup. It runs about as fast as a turtle.

As soon as I fully complete 10 knives I'm ordering a proper tool.

A good file is not slow at removing material. Block of aluminum with self adhesive sandpaper in place of the file for finishing. Its no high speed belt action but it will teach you a lot. It helped me very much. The first knife I made with one suddenly looked very nice. I could watch the TV in the reflection without the image distorting.

I made a small 6 inch skeletonized knife entirely with files and a saw and that jig yesterday in 3 hours. Only power tool I used was a handheld drill.

Here she is pre heat treat: Number 5

2nak0tv.jpg


2yo1vyd.jpg


Regards, Ben
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That little knife is OUTSTANDING!!! What steel is that??
 
bravodelta said:
That little knife is OUTSTANDING!!! What steel is that??
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Thank you so very much, makes me feel great ya like it! It made of a German cold work alloy 1.2519 http://www.steel-grades.com/Steel-grades/Tool-steel-Hard-alloy/1-2519.html

"1.2519 is a chrome/tungsten cold work tool steel that is close to O-7. It is recommended for industrial blades, taps, dies, and reamers. typical composition:
C: 1.10
Si: 0.25
Mn: 0.3
Cr: 1.20
V: 0.20
W: 1.30

if you do some exploring, you will find the composition is almost the same as Hitachi Aogami1 or Aogami2. It seems about as easy to find. i guess you could call it super O-1 or 52100 on steroids. Roman Landes has commented that this is one of the finest non-stainless steels available for knives, that the tungsten and vanadium additions allow you to grind a very thin, razor sharp edge with extremely good edge retention." Quote: http://knifedogs.com/showthread.php?35994-BE2519-1-2519-110WCrV5-tool-steel

I'm getting the stainless itch, need to order some CPM or something!
 
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If I could turn back the clock I wouldn't waste my money on the 2- 1x30s or the Grizzly 2x72 that used for so long. Many good knives have been made by me and others with these grinders but a variable speed KMG type grinder makes building nice knives easier and way more fun.
 
One big improvement is to take apart the tension mechanism and clean it, typically out of the box it really does not work. Second make sure the little backing plate is aligned with the belt when the belt is moving, sometimes you have to file out the holes to get it right,
Click to expand...

I'll give that a shot this weekend for the tension mechanism. I hadn't looked at it too closely yet so it'll be worth a shot. As far as the backing plate, filing it out sounds worthwhile. That's part of what pisses me off though is the fact that every time I switch a belt, it's going to be a 5 minute process to HOPE I can get everything to line up the way I want it.

I got a variety of ceramic belts for it. Play with the tension adjuster knob and the screw that holds the entire assembly.
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Which screw are you referring to?

I used that grinder for one year before ordering a 2x72. To correct the tracking and stop some of the belt jumping was as simple as putting some tape over the tracking wheel (I used electrical tape specifically). While that worked a little bit, I had to really check alignment between the wheels and adjust the allen screws to correct alignment. Once I did that, I had pretty good results with tracking.

For your platen issue, you are going to have to adjust it with a few checks. For my 1x30, the platen wasn't at a true 90 degree angle. So I had to bend it carefully, or you could always make a new one out of some hardened steel. The other main issue, and the one that you are experiencing, is directly related to that problem. This is due to the fact that your platen isn't sitting properly on your grinder where it mounts to. To fix this, I had to take the platen off and grind it down on both sides to make the belt hang over each side. This will take a few attempts to get your grinder to the way you want it.

Here's my suggestion to you for right now, because I was there one year ago. Set your plunges with a small chainsaw file, maybe 6" or 8" (I think mine are 1/8" diameter). Use a file guide if you are not already. Once you have this step complete and your plunges are how you want them, go to the grinder for your basic stock removal (I'm assuming you're trying to flat grind). Get it to where you want the grind lines and then true it up with a 10" or 12" magicut file. This may take a bit of work, but this is where you truly start to understand the way a flat grind should look as opposed to your convex result from that grinder's "flat" platen. I got pretty good results with removing the table and freehand grinding. Just as I figured out my 1x30, I went and bought a Coote 2x72 with a 10" wheel. THe difference is immeasurable.
Click to expand...

Love these suggestions Sgt John! I'll check the alignment of the wheels. Hadn't even looked at it close enough to realize that was possible. I like the idea of grinding down the backing plate as well so the belt can overhang each side. I had already squared up the backing plate though, so that aspect has been good. I just got a couple of 5/32" chainsaw files for the setting of the plunge lines and am definitely going to try that on my next one.

Nice work ev13wt! 3 hours??? ;) I built a jig as well and am using it as well on my next. Fine tuning the making process right now and trying to figure out how to get consistent results.

Definitely got to make some solid knives and sell them to save up for a solid grinder! But for the meantime I'm going to spend the afternoon tomorrow trying to dial this little turd in and see what I can make happen there! ;)

Thanks for the suggestions again everyone! :)
 
Wowndeye said:
Which screw are you referring to?
Click to expand...

I was going to point out that nut he's talking about. It is the one thing that helped me. And using new belts.

On the inside of the grinder there is a 9/16 or 1/2in nut that when loosened the whole tracking wheel assembly slides. If the belt is way too loose then loosen that nut and push it back and tighten it up. There is a YouTube vid showing it...ill try to find it.
 
You went into this expecting a 1x30 to be a good choice for a primary grinder? What other full time or serious hobby maker do you see using a 1x30?

I love my little HF 1x30. It's just on sharpening and kydex duty though. I know that's about all it's good for. Don't hate so bad on the little guy. It's just not meant for this kind of work. It's like taking a Ford Pinto to the drags and being pissed that its not winning races.

Coote makes a hell of a cheap 2x72 by the way.
 
someone on here has plans for a no weld two by seventy belt sander not to hard to make and works very well. It is made out of 2'' alumium square tube
 
This is fantastically helpful. I just can't believe I didn't tinker enough to have noticed the screw, I assumed it was just permanently mounted and if have to do something to profile the wheel, tape or sanding it.

What belts do you prefer with this grinder? I've only used awful cheap AO belts. I know it's been covered to death but I saw so many competing suggestions and all for'real' grinders that it left me no closer to knowing what and where to buy some.

Thanks again. I've got the rest of a piece of 1084 that had been calling to me.
Fitzhugh
 
Try tru grit, or supergrit for belts. My local home depot had 1x30 ceramic belts. They're OK. For all of the complaining about 1x30 grinders, I did quite a few knives on one.
 
Okay... Been doing some work on this little turd and will share more about that soon (nothing mind blowing but has been practical).

You went into this expecting a 1x30 to be a good choice for a primary grinder? What other full time or serious hobby maker do you see using a 1x30?

I love my little HF 1x30. It's just on sharpening and kydex duty though. I know that's about all it's good for. Don't hate so bad on the little guy. It's just not meant for this kind of work. It's like taking a Ford Pinto to the drags and being pissed that its not winning races.
Click to expand...

I didn't get into this expecting to sucked in! ;) I had a broken file laying somewhere in the garage that for some reason I hadn't thrown away when I came across an article online showing how to make a knife from a file so thought I'd have a little fun goofing around with it. Bought the little sander because $30 is a little easier to swallow than $100's for what was to be a little knife with what might be a useable blade. Did a little more reading on the subject, started learning about all the different steels and became more curious and realized that using a known metal would actually result in a quality knife. Due to my curiosity, obsessiveness, desire to be creative and build something (which I don't get to do much of now being out of the construction industry) I bought some 1080 and stared the journey.

That said, the HF 1x30 got the job done with subpar belts, but the desire to get consistent grinds was resulting in frustration. My intention with this post was almost a warning to the other new makers that were browsing and looking for info on peoples opinion on the sander, hoping to encourage them to look elsewhere.

But, thanks to some of the above posts and staring at the little thing, I put some ideas into effect and am actually pretty happy with the results. I just finished a knife out of 1/4" 5160 that turned out as intended due to following through on some of the advise above.

Will update soon! :)
 
Thank you! I just got through tweaking mine and it is so much better. I also ordered a bunch of ceramic belts from supergrit. The suggestion to get ceramic, and the other to go to supergrit combined to make it much easier to shop. They list "ceramic belts" in different sizes and two types, rather than all the different brands. I may not gett the best there is but at least I got some instead of waiting forever to figure out the perfect shopping list. They HAVE to be better than the red or whatever ones I got from HF. They have a bump on the seam that makes them hard to use at all on metal.


That bolt/nut just behind and below the tracking wheel helped a lot. Another thing that helped was shimming the top wheel. I had to put two layers of shims made from double-edged razor blades (all I could find) to push the wheel so the belt tracked right. Previously, when the belt was centering on that wheel it was overhanging about a quarter inch on the tracking wheel. The hole in the frame for the upper wheel's shaft is loose. Now it is just a 1/16 or less overhang. This also means the belt lines up correctly with the platen since before I had to split the difference, having the belt overhang a bit on the top and a bit on the tracking wheel, which left it running at a little slant side to side across the platen.

I took out the spring that holds the whole tracking mechanism back because it really seemed useless. The bolt holds it, and the spring isn't strong enough to do much. If the bolt isn't holding it I'm in touble anyways. Seems like they kinda almost sorta thought about making the tension truly adjustable but then gave up - design by a committee of cost analysts!
 
I never used the 1x30 but from what I understand it is nice for using on handle shaping and sharpening once you decide to move to something else if it's not a 2x72. I use the craftsman 2x42 with a ceramic platen on it. For your plunges have you tried cutting them in with a chainsaw file first rather than trying to make them strictly with the grinder? That said I'm also a big believer in Fred's Bubble Jig for getting easily consistent grinds on the bevels. Even on my little Craftsman I surprise myself with how decent some of my grinds come out even on a sub par grinder.
 
I think Wowndeye summed up it's place perfectly when saying he didn't expect to get hooked. It is so cheap when on sale that I think it has been worth it, even if just as an appetizer. I haven't used a proper grinder but I have been happy I had this one since my previous efforts had been 100% handwork. Now that I've tuned it up I'll like it more.


Hmmm, maybe I should wait until I can use it outside to actually try grinding anything on it again:


lvyxy5j.jpg

Fire hazard, anyone?
 
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