HI Sirupati/Kobra vs katana?

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If a ninja and a Ghurka had a showdown which would pull out alive? :D

What are the pros/cons of the Sirupati/Kobra against a katana? Thanks!
 
I've seen a couple or so pix of little WW II Ghorkas smiling and holding a katana.:D

The title of the pix was, "When the khukuri meets the katana.":eek:
 
If you're thinking bout the picture I'm thinking about, he was holding a japanese sword, alright, but beyond that, look again - he has a SECOND japanese sword tucked under his arm.

For the record, though, not that it makes any difference, the kobra at 25' or 26"
feels front heavy and loses balance. Not sure of the 20" ones. Chainpuri and Sirupati both feel wonderful to me at the 20" length.
 
you are asking us to compare people with two different job descriptions.
fair enough, but just remember that, ok ?

equally skilled warriors ?
if so, then the man with the longer weapon will probably win. its just a fact.
the best swordsman in the world is going to be nervous against a man with a halberd or spear.
distance is a major factor in combat.
major major.

an 18" knife against a 27 " sword, equally skilled...
distance wins.
 
and if he's got a lazer sight on his katana - ala the sword at the end of versus.... all bets are off....
 
DannyinJapan said:
you are asking us to compare people with two different job descriptions.
fair enough, but just remember that, ok ?

equally skilled warriors ?
if so, then the man with the longer weapon will probably win. its just a fact.
the best swordsman in the world is going to be nervous against a man with a halberd or spear.
distance is a major factor in combat.
major major.

an 18" knife against a 27 " sword, equally skilled...
distance wins.

NOT SO
MANY A SPEAR TOTING,OR LANCER ECT HAS TO HIS DISMAY BEEN DISPATCHED BY A SMALLER WEAPON.
ONCE THE SMALLER WEAPON WIELDER IS INSIDE THE LONG WEAPONS REACH THE OPPONENT WITH THE SPEAR ECT IS TO HIS HORROR DESPATCHED.

IT IS MUCH EASIER TO GET INSIDE SOMEONES GUARD WHO IS WIELDING A LONGER WEAPON.ALL YOU NEED IS THE GUTS AND DETERMINATION TO DO SO.
HENCE THE GHURKAS OFTEN BEEING THE WINNER IN HAND TO HAND COMBAT.
 
I think te man with the most determination, best training, and luckiest.
 
I think there might be a difference also between being (no offense to anyone) a trainer vs. a fighter i.e. one who practices doing something perfectly or someone who does it to stay alive.

In American terms it would be like having a professional boxer get in the ring with one of the tough-man competitors...the boxer automatically expects certain things and follows rules, while the guys in the tough-man contests are often flat out crazy SOBs!

On another veer, Batman vs. the Green Hornet? I'm putting my fiver on the Green Hornet! ;-)
 
There was a story I read many years agoabout a Marine boxer who was callenged by a Japanese martial artist.

The rules were "boxing" rules with 3 minute rounds. The Marine kept the oriental away by moving and jabbing with his left.

In one round the Marine was thrown by a "ippon-sei-nage" throw, landed on his head, almost knocked out cold, but was saved by the bell.

The next round the Marine knocked out the martial artist, he got p*ssed, so the story goes.
 
the question was ghurka vs ninja, and i knew i shouldnt have said anything.
i just knew one of the old contrarians would step up and, no matter what my opinion, state that i was totally wrong.
and lo and behold, kendo to the rescue.
i thought you left the cantina when we had our little crisis a while back.

in any case, you are wrong.
in every continent and every age, the primary weapon on the battlefield is and always has been the range weapon.
cannon, arrow, spear, sword.

i dont think you actually thought about your reply, i think you just wanted to argue and sound important.

HENCE THE CAPS

please read a book.
 
why would anybody do such a thing ...on a .......Forum,
I can't imagine..... ;)

isn't that the fun part?
 
Kendo said:
NOT SO
MANY A SPEAR TOTING,OR LANCER ECT HAS TO HIS DISMAY BEEN DISPATCHED BY A SMALLER WEAPON.
ONCE THE SMALLER WEAPON WIELDER IS INSIDE THE LONG WEAPONS REACH THE OPPONENT WITH THE SPEAR ECT IS TO HIS HORROR DESPATCHED.

IT IS MUCH EASIER TO GET INSIDE SOMEONES GUARD WHO IS WIELDING A LONGER WEAPON.ALL YOU NEED IS THE GUTS AND DETERMINATION TO DO SO.
HENCE THE GHURKAS OFTEN BEEING THE WINNER IN HAND TO HAND COMBAT.

Are you suggesting that Ghurkas armed with Khukuris routinely defeated opponents who were trained and armed with swords?

If so, I'd be interested in your source material for that conclusion. Thanks.

Also, the primary weapon on battlefields for thousands of years prior to the introduction of firearms were polearms like spears, halberds, naginata and so on. Yeah, the occasional lancer bit the dust to the swordsman, but not often enough that entire armies were formed around the sword or axe and gave up their polearms to do it.

Also, also, it is one thing to get inside the guard of a spear where the primary threat area is the pointy tip at the end - it is entirely another to try to get inside the guard of a cutting instrument like a sword that has an edge running 24-36" in length.

Yeah, guts and determination are important, but in the hands of two equally skilled opponents, the longer ranged weapons offer an advantage that no savvy warrior can dare dismiss.

Don
 
Diamond Cut II said:
What are the pros/cons of the Sirupati/Kobra against a katana? Thanks!

Not to change the subject, but this sounds like pitting a general-purpose tool against one more specialized. Granted, you can whittle on folks with a Sirupati/Gelbu Special, but can you dig a latrine with a Katana? What if the showdown were over this task with a time factor thrown in. Who would be pooping first?
 
The Roman Gladius, the Spanish Falcata (kukri) and the Greek Kopis (kukri), all Short Swords, ruled the battlefields of their times.
A short, fast, powerful blade has a much going for it as does a long blade.

Nasty wrote:

"I think there might be a difference also between being (no offense to anyone) a trainer vs. a fighter i.e. one who practices doing something perfectly or someone who does it to stay alive.

In American terms it would be like having a professional boxer get in the ring with one of the tough-man competitors...the boxer automatically expects certain things and follows rules, while the guys in the tough-man contests are often flat out crazy SOBs!"

When a person practices with the intent of perfecting himself he comes to understand the foundational principles that underly all technique, and which apply to all situations.

In a no-rules street contest, a top-ten middleweight professional boxer would rule supreme.
A olympic wrestler or judoka performing at the same level as the boxer would give him a run for his money.

People make some unrealistic rationalizations about professional boxers.
I think they want to dismiss the significance of how hard a professional boxer trains, sort of as an excuse or compensation for their own less intense and consuming level of training.
Off the top of my head, I can't think of anyone who trains as hard as professional boxers, olympic wrestlers and top level judoka, except perhaps bicyclists and swimmers (not martial arts).
Interestingly, boxing represents the counter to wrestling and judo because it enforces and utilizes "proper distance.;" and, ironically, wrestling and judo represent the counters to boxing, since they seek to remove distance.
 
My first thought was just what the title says, "Sirupati/Kobra vs Katana." And how that applied during WW II in actual combat.
I may be all wet, but I don't think the Japanese were given that much training with their swords. From what I've read and understand the swords were given more as a status symbol than a weapon to Japanese officers. Under such circumstances the khukuri, in the hands of a Ghorka who was raised with a khuk in his hand, was certain to win.
Also given, a sneaky little sob who got the drop on another little sneaky sob would also probably win. Sometimes too long of a weapon is a liability instead of an advantage.
 
Don Nelson said:
Also, the primary weapon on battlefields for thousands of years prior to the introduction of firearms were polearms like spears, halberds, naginata and so on. Yeah, the occasional lancer bit the dust to the swordsman, but not often enough that entire armies were formed around the sword or axe and gave up their polearms to do it.

Don

the Roman army was formed around a 24" piece of steel (the gladius) that was used to routinely defeat greek armies using the spear and the sarissa (pike), it was the discipline, training and mental attitude that won.

they also tended to grind up other barbarian armies that used long cutting swords. it was only later in the empire after that discipline broke down and standards fell that the pole-arms came back into fashion in the more undisciplined and barbaric melee's - an early roman legion would have made mincemeat out of most medievil armies which were nothing more than rabble led by a few horseman that thought too much of themselves.

The romans were soldiers, not warriors. thats why they won. the ghurka is a soldier who wins. it may be the warrior who wins duels, it's the soldier than wins battles.
 
Not to keep harping on the boxing angle, but just wanted to interject Mohammed Ali's line from a visit on the Tonight Show, when asked if he was the toughest guy in the world.
"No, I'm the best boxer. There's some fella's in my home town that I hope I never have to fight."
 
Yvsa's correct. The typical Japanese NCO and Officer normally did not have much training in the use of the sword as a weapon per se'. Kendo and other sword-related martial arts were taught to all Japanese males as near as I can tell, but I would be unwilling to say that that counted for what I would refer to as "true combat" training in the way that the typical infantryman was taught to use a rifle and bayonet.

[By the way, Kendo has a much to do with real sword fighting as modern day foil fencing has to do with real sword fighting, ie, not much at all really. Kendo and sport fencing are like comparing small caliber Olympic style shooting to full-caliber combat. Yeah, the tools are kinda alike, and some skills transfer across, but there is a world of difference in the details.]

Swords were issued to both NCO's and officers (though of course, one had the option to use their own if they wished). They were somewhat more than status symbols since they were actually intended for use, but again, from what I've read, the NCO's and officers did not spend lots of time learning their swords with the type of familiarity a ninja (cough) would have.

Since I am on the topic of ninja, I think it fair to mention that the figure most of us conjure when we hear the term "ninja" is far more Hollywood and myth than reality. I mention ninja here only because it was referenced at the beginning of this thread and I take it to mean that it referred to someone extraordinarily skilled in swordsmanship.

Well, I'm on a roll, might as well continue. To be honest, if a Ghorka with his khukuri were to fight a true "ninja" equivalent or Samurai warrior armed with a Katana, my money would go heavily toward the Samurai. Or for that matter even a Medieval warrior armed with the typical Medieval style double-edged sword. And not just because the Medieval warrior or Samurai had the longer weapon.

Even though Ghorka might have been raised with a Khukuri in their hands, (as Yvsa pointed out), that is not the same thing as a warrior who spends a good part of each day learning, exploring and practicing how to use his weapons in a combat environment.

I've seen well-trained sword martial artists, both Japanese-style and Medieval European and all I can say is, if anyone here had seen what I have they would have to give the Ghorka credit for guts, but from an objective standpoint, have to conclude that the typical Ghorka is outmatched both in terms of technique and weaponry.

The typical Ninja/Samurai (most Ninja were simply "moonlighting" Samurai) was trained in a holistic fighting style sometimes referred to as Bujinkan. It encompasses a lot more than simply giving a sharp loud shout accompanied by a vicious stroke of the sword. Distance, timing, feints, traps, kicks, locks, blocks, trips and throws are all a part of it.

I participated in a Bujinkan seminar a month or so back and I was stunned. I've been a martial artist of sorts, off and on for over 30 years, and for the last several years, a sword artist as well.

I saw, learned and executed techniques that gave me a whole new appreciation for the "holistic warrior package" of the typical Samurai warrior. Prior to that for a few years I've studied and practiced the Medieval sword arts of a number of Medieval masters and their techniques are a far cry from what we have had shown to us on the silver screen.

Instead of slow lumbering armored warriors clumsily crashing their big ol' 10, 15, 25 or 50-lb swords against each other in an attempt to just bash each other to the ground; or instead of long drawn out rapier duels lasting ten minutes or more (in the post-medieval age); and instead of the loser dying to a neat and single thrust to the chest, you have a dynamic, aggressive, FAST, and again, wholistic body of arts that include trapping, blocking, tripping, kicking (to the nuts as well as to the sides and backs of the knees), throwing and so on, and I mean using the guard of the sword to do some of these as well! Losers don't normally fall to a single clean thrust to chest but instead have one or more arms and/or legs completely severed followed by cuts, chops or thusts to the head.

[In the latter years of the Medieval period when armor was more prevalent, tripping or throwing an opponent off balance were common, and once the warrior was down the still-standing opponent would often times shove the sharp tip of his 2.5-4.0 pound sword into the open face of the downed warriors helm, or through the armpit, or the crotch, and do so by holding the hilt in the right hand and using his gauntletted left hand to grasp the sword blade, and thus use the sword like a short spear or bayonet. This is called "Half Swording" and provides an enormous amount of power to the thrust.]

I've seen pictures of skeletons removed from Medieval battle grave sites that are nothing short of chilling. One picture that haunts me is that of a skeleton with both his legs severed beneath the knees. He was buried with his severed legs laying next to him, and you could clearly see, based on the angle of the cleaved bone surfaces, the path the sword took as it sliced both legs off in a single stroke.

Now, all this is not meant to detract from the well-deserved fierce, aggressive, and courageous reputation of the Ghorkas. But I do think we need to keep their performance against the rather blade-phobic foes they faced in WWI, WWII and beyond in a realistic context. I mean, let's be realistic, there are literally hundreds of accounts from the 1700's on through today where entire units of troops turned and ran like hell when they saw a line of bayonets charging them, and for that matter, have read accounts of foes running from Ghorkas charging them with drawn khukuris.

Those guys would stand their ground and be shot to pieces, but the moment "cold steel" came their way, they left.

But against a non-blade-phobic opponent, skilled in the use of his weapon, the Ghorka is going to have a very tough nut to crack.

Don
 
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