Hi Sword Strength and balance

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Oct 18, 2003
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How would you rate the Hi sword models for strength and balance?

My wood handled Manjushree is a beauty, and the blade seems solid. The sword is blade-heavy for a one-hander, with a balance point at 5 1/2 inches from the guard.

The nice carving and appearance of the wooden handle more than make up for the forward balance of the blade - and it is probably a good chopper.

How do the other Hi swords balance and how strong are they? The Tarwar is obviously tough, but what about the others? Anyone check the balance points on theirs? I may have missed the comments about some of the models when I was out of town in mid-November.
 
Short answer: they're strong.

Most of them seem to be balanced toward the tip - no surprise, really, as the folks that make them are normally making khukuris. The Napoleon swords are far more neutrally balanced.

My Saturday is already shaping up to be a busy day but if I can find the time, I'll take some measurements and post them.
 
Balance Point:

Falcata 5" (OAL-27", WT-42 oz.)

Dukti 5" (OAL-26.5", WT-UNK)

Manjushree 6" (OAL-27.5", WT-26 oz.)

Nepolean 6.5" (OAL-31.5", WT-18 oz.)

Of them all, the falcata would be best for zombies. Well balanced and a weight that forces good discipline.

The Dukti is quickest. Nice and well balanced, but a little light in the loafers.

The Manjushree has beautiful carving that is too elaborate for a useful handle making it hard to judge.

The Nepolean is the only sword or khukuri that jumped out of my hand. The torque generated by the length in combination with a rather odd-shaped handle makes it kind of hard to handle at speed when you aren't used to it. Even starting out slow didn't really prepare me for how it handled.

These are only mine, and others results will vary. These are, as I understand it, rather light for their model type by HI standards.
 
My Manjushree weighs in at 26 oz also, and has a beautiful handle. It offers a good grip, and is longer than I would expect for short sword.
Very pretty sword.
 
Here we go. All length measurements are taken from end to end in a straight line. Scale is accurate to about +/- 2 ounces. Point of balance is measured from the bolster or guard. (If both are present, measurement is from the guard.)

Some HI swords:

Dukti: 30 ounces, 27", POB 5.5"
Bob White Bolo: 25 ounces, 20.5", POB 3.5"
Manjushree: 32 ounces, 27.5", POB 4.5"
Tibetan Sword: 33 ounces, 32", POB 5"
Antler Napoleon Sword: 27 ounces, 36", POB 4.5"
Monster Napoleon Sword: 33 ounces, 36.5", POB 5.5"
Napoleon Sword: 19 ounces, 31", POB 6"
Tarwar: 36 ounces, 29.5", POB 5.5"
Everest Katana: 42 ounces, 36.5", POB 5"

Note the length-to-weight ratio of the Napoleon swords. The really amazing thing is that, due to their triangular cross section, they're actually quite strong. I would not use one for a prybar but they will take thrusts to interior doors and chop up plywood without harm.

Note also that besides the BWB (which isn't really a sword but got listed here because it's definitely not a khuk) all of them have a point of balance within a 1.5" range, despite their differing lengths and makers. (Mostly Bura, some Sher.) They're also similar to the numbers SASSAS posted, except that his seem to be a bit further out and the overall weights are a bit less. Is this a trend?

Interesting.

Some "swordlike" HI khuks, for comparison:

30" Sirupati: 44 ounces, 30", POB 8"
18" Salyan: 18 ounces, 18", POB 3"
20" Jange: 28 ounces, 20", POB 5"

The Salyan is blazingly fast but not much good on wood. The Jange is an excellent multipurpose khukuri with a "weapony" feel to it. The Siru is, not surprisingly, a beast. (That's the one I chopped up the truck fender with.) It tires me out in mere minutes.

Some non-HI swords, for more comparison:

M1913 Cavalry Saber: 40 ounces, 38.5", POB 3"
1796 Light Cavalry Saber: 30 ounces, 33.5", POB 8"
Brass Handled Falcatta: 47 ounces, 25", POB 4.5"
Barong: 28 ounces, 25", POB 5"
Grosse Messer: 60 ounces, 38", POB 5.5"

The 1913 is balanced for an agile tip but due to its weight, it's still not as lively as a shorter sword. The Falcatta is a full 47 ounces and feels like twice that much - it's a tip heavy slug. On the other hand, the Grosse Messer, despite being nearly four pounds in weight, handles very well in two hands and acceptably in one, yet still hits like a four pound sword. (As in, it hits like a dump truck.) Back to the HI swords, my smallest Napoleon (at 19 ounces) has its point of balance way out there at 6", yet at such a light weight it's the most nimble of my entire collection.

This brings me to my main point here: the numbers are not everything. But, they can tell us a lot.

One final note: not all the HI swords appear to be differentially hardened. Out of my collection, the Napoleons, Dukti, and Manjushree all seem to be through hardened to something a bit harder than a spring temper. Certainly not a bad choice from a performance standpoint, let alone a production one, and they are strong enough for my liking.
 
Thanks for all of the measurements.

How well did the Tibetan sword do on chopping? I missed your report on that one.

I was surprised at how heavy your older Manjushree was, yet still had a balance point that is closer to the handle than mine.
Does yours have a horn handle?

Your earlier report on the Bob White Bolo was surprising. The big knife/small sword seems amazingly tough.

These swords seem to have balance points that are a little further out than many European swords. Some of this probably comes from the construction methods - they don't use a pommel as a counterweight.

Do any of these swords use a distal taper? My Manjushree doesn't seem to.
 
I have not chopped any wood with the Tibetan sword yet, but yesterday I chopped up some recyclables with it.

http://www.wordzz.com/Dave/tibetan1.wmv
http://www.wordzz.com/Dave/tibetan2.wmv

Oh, what the hell...and the clip where I was getting the hang of it:

http://www.wordzz.com/Dave/Bloopers/thwack.wmv

Making an unsuccessful cut against a full two liter soda bottle is a good way to test the integrity of both sword and wrist, by the way.

My Manjushree does indeed have a horn handle and swings well despite the weight. Also, the shape of the guard lends itself to fingering the ricasso, making it even more controllable. (Try that on a Dukti. ;) ) When I have the money, I'd very much like to purchase one of the newer Duktis or Manjushrees just to feel the difference. Without having handled one, I would guess that shaving a few ounces off is a good thing.

You're probably right about the pommel thing, although going with a chiruwa style tang ought to shift the balance rearwards considerably. (Although judging by my numbers, they don't.) It's interesting that you mention the differences between euro style swords though. The Napoleons feel very European but the rest of them are decidedly different; the Tibetan sword, in particular, gave me a case of culture shock when I first picked it up. It has a very unusual feel to it - not bad, but not what I'm used to. I feel like I'm doing something wrong with it while I'm swinging it and I'm not sure why. (And don't say that it's my lousy footwork either - I was barefoot during those videos and I'd melted warm spots through the ice and didn't feel like shifting my feet.)

Most of them have a very small amount of distal taper. The Tibetan has a more noticeable amount but still not what one would see in a nicely tapered euro style sword. As for the non-HI swords, the M1913 tapers nicely and I believe that the Grosse Messer does as well.
 
Thanks fer pointing that out, Dave. The numbers do not tell you whether the sword will be quick in the hand, or where its optimal striking point will be, etc. Just because a sword has a balance point x inches ahead of the hand doesn't really mean much. It depends more on how the mass has been distributed along the blade's length or the handle.

Some sword types were designed without pommels, and work fine without 'em. Others with pommels had different design parameters in mind. A pommel does far more than just pull back the balance point, by the way.
 
arty said:
Thanks for all of the measurements.

How well did the Tibetan sword do on chopping? I missed your report on that one.

I was surprised at how heavy your older Manjushree was, yet still had a balance point that is closer to the handle than mine.
Does yours have a horn handle?

Your earlier report on the Bob White Bolo was surprising. The big knife/small sword seems amazingly tough.

These swords seem to have balance points that are a little further out than many European swords. Some of this probably comes from the construction methods - they don't use a pommel as a counterweight.

Do any of these swords use a distal taper? My Manjushree doesn't seem to.

The older manjushri's were a bit heavier. My chandan one was about the 4th one made and is 36 oz. I have also a horn that is 32 oz.

In my opinion, the carved handles actually feel great in the hand and in no way affect the ability to hang onto it. If anything I think they add to the overall feel.
 
I agree - the nicest thing about the Manjushree is the handle. It feels great in the hand.
 
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