hidden tang question

N

Nikk

Joined
Apr 10, 2000
Messages
49
I see on the Brisa knife website (from Finland) a long, 3 mm drill bit and other tools for making a mortise for a hidden or through tang. They charge a lot for these tools. I don't see anything like them in the American supply catalogs. How is the slot for the tang usually cut?
 
It's kind of a unique American thing Nikk. It's called "Wallering". You drill a hole down the center of the handle materil with a drill bit the same diameter as the thickness of the steel. Then you exert side pressure {Wallering) on the bit, carefully so it doesn't break. Do this till theres a slot into which the tang will fit. You'll probably have to make it a little larger than needed but thats ok since you can fill it with epoxy.
I've heard of some folks using the bits made for those spiral cutters like Roto Zip, but I'd be very careful using one of them. Looks like they could get away from you real easily. Hope this helps Nikk!

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I like to drill two to three holes in line with each other, all a slightl smaller diameter than the thickness of the tang.

This will give you three holes in a row, centered in the handle stock, with "webs" between each other.

Then I usually take a smaller bit and carefully drill out the "webbing" between holes.

Once that's done, I use a series of files to make the hole rectangular and to size.

My hidden tang knives have a tapering tang...meaning it's close to the width of the ricasso area of the blade at the shoulders, and then gradually tapers down to the end thickness. Because of this, I would still have to file the hole after using a mortising bit.

It would save time though.

Nick

[This message has been edited by NickWheeler (edited 01-13-2001).]
 
Mike(L6) You are a truely honest man! "Wallering" indeed! I aim at very neatly drilled and chiseled slot using long drills and my own ho'made skinny chisels. then burn in for last little bit of fit. But, I admit there is a bit of wallering involved. OR you can do the grop in two halves that glue together around the tang. But thats not as "pure" or something.
 
Me personaly I like the wallering method !!!
Bruce

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Bruce Evans Handcrafted Knives
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me too ...i waller , give it a try ..sounds primitive but hey it works!!
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i keep grinding and grinding and it is still too short!!
 
I just asked Bruce Evans if I had to do it this way. I was gonna drill a bigger hole so the entire tang would fit inside. I guess this is a no no. In the book how to make knives by Barney and Loveless they show a modified wood rasp that is long and slender that is used to file the hole oblong. Check it out. Cory

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On smaller tangs I will drill a hole that is the same as the widest part of the tang's average size and then waller up and down at the front so the tang is tight up and down then let the epoxy fill in the rest of the hole.Mario couldnt break this type of joint on the bowie that I sent him to test so I believe it to be strong enough for any handle and size blade since the test Bowie had a 10 inch blade and the tang was 3/8 inch wide on the average.
Bruce

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Bruce Evans Handcrafted Knives
The soul of the Knife begins in the Fire!!!!!
Member of,AKTI#A000223 and The American Bladesmith Society
asmallpicofbruceforforums.jpg
 
If it's wood, I drill the tang and burn it in, scraping out the blackened wood.
The handiest tool I've seen for hidden tang fitting was made like a few teeth of a saw that cuts backward. I've tried to illistrate below.

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I will be making a tool to do this. Looks like the Great art we just saw. What I plan on doing is to take a scrap piece of each thickness of steel I use. Keep it really skinny. cut in some teeth and harden. Should cut the exact size width I need and keep the Tang hole square!

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[This message has been edited by bobH (edited 01-14-2001).]
 
Thanks, guys for all your replys. What if you need to make the slot longer than a standard drill bit, which is not very long. Brisa has some of the tools mentioned above--www.brisa.multi.fi--but making your own is better, except the long drill bit.
 
I "waller" also, but than I use a drywall saw to square and widen things up. The saw has to be ground down so it's narrow enough to fit in the hole. ( Didn't I read about that in the forum ???) This constant state of confusion is starting to annoy me.

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In that case Nikk, cut the handle down to the size/length of the longest bit you have and put in a spacer of wood, bone, brass, or what have you. It looks nice and as long as you bed it in epoxy, it will be strong. That's only for a handle that's secured at the pommel with a threaded pommel cap though. I don't think I'd use that method for a hidden tang that's just epoxied in.
 
Actually, you can get bits a good 12" long, and they aren't that expensive. That should cover just about any grip you need. Wallering with them is a pain in the a$$, but it can be done. Believe it or not, a while back when I was making a new handle for a wallhanger sword (it ended up as a wedding present for a friend--I couldn't afford much else), I found such a bit at Wal-Mart. Which is really pathetic considering I only looked there because the Lowes next door didn't have them.

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Bruce, I think you are right about the strength of a properly made stick tang.(in other words plenty string) Especially if you add a ferrule that surrounds the handle and tang at the guard, or ultimately, make the ferrule an integral part of the guard. After all the chunk of wood that forms the grip is quite stong itself and actually reinforces the tang.
 
Nikk,
L6 and Max have the right idea (or at least that's what I do). sounds to me like you want to buy the drill--Go for it--a man can't have too many tools and accessories!

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I just went up to Sears and bought a couple of those small router bits and put one into my drill press. Works a lot better than the wallering method and the bits only cost a couple bucks apiece; maybe $5 apiece. Just slide whatever wood or micarta you are shelling out around on the workrest.

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Nikk, to make a hole that is longer than a drill bit, drill a hole in the center of your wood handle block as far as you can then set it aside. Hammer a short nail through a 1/2"thick piece of scrap wood. Line up the nail and your drill press bit. Flip the wood handle block over and place the drill hole on the nail. Drill another hole and they should line up. Bo Svenson has a book on making Scandavian style knives with hidden tangs that I found useful.
 
FYI, many industrial supply companies carry what are called taper length drill bits which are manufactured in different lengths depending on the dia of the bit. I purchased a 6 3/8" long 5/16" bit for my hidden tangs for aprox $3 from Victor Machinery Exchange (1-800-7232-5359). McMaster Carr and MSC also carry them. The lengths of these bits increase as the dia increases. Also available are straight shank bits in 12" and 18" lengths in various sizes, but that is getting a little too long for me, but maybe if you make swords or something...
I use this bit for those tangs I don't want to go all the way through. Otherwise I use the same basic technique that beyondmyken describes above, but I had a bottom center machined out of alluminum that fits in my drill press table (not that a nail in a piece of wood wouldn't work!).
I Waller also if need be, but with a new and sharp Lenox sawzall blade with its back ground down to narrow it a little and attached to a handle.
Good luck!
Wapiti
 
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