Hidden tangs: to pin or not to pin, that is the question.

[bjalongi]

I've been noticing a lot of hidden tang knives that aren't pinned. I've always pinned mine, because I'm worried about field failures. So, what do you guys who don't pin your handles do to ensure they won't come apart? Are you simply putting all your faith in the epoxy? If so, which type?

 

[richard j]

i have made quite a few hidden tang knives, some are 16 years old and going strong. i cut notches in the tang and drill holes for the epoxy to pass through and lock the blade in place. i made a knife for a friends son who was 13 at the time. he left the knife outside one night and it rained. he found it days later and it was rusty.
i decided to remove the antler so i could clean the blade up easier. i heated the spine up and let the heat move down the tang which loosened the epoxy enough to get apart but it didnt want to give up easily. i use 2 ton fast set epoxy on knives like this since i hold them together by hand until the epoxy sets to make sure it wont seperate.

 

[1984nitro]

I have made some hidden tang knives with no pins. I have found that JB weld will be stronger then most handles that you can put on there. I had made a handle with paper micarta and JB weld, I then decided I didn't like the handle style so I used a hammer to break it off. The micarta held on strong till i got out the 2lb hammer, anvil and chisel out. I took forever because i had to use a chisel to break all the micarta off and then grind the JB weld off. After that I would put any hidden tang with JB weld up again a pinned knife any day.
Just my thoughts
Eric Knight

 

[bjalongi]

Good to know. Thanks for the input.

 

[James_Terrio]

After that I would put any hidden tang with JB weld up again a pinned knife any day.
Just my thoughts
Eric Knight

Glad to see I'm not the only one who likes JB weld. It's pretty strong stuff, sometimes I feel embarassed using it though cuz it seems so redneck, lol. I've found that it shows a dark grey line when cured, like on a full-tang with scales... whether or not this is a good thing is up to you.

My first rehandle project was a K-bar blade, mortised-tang with pakkawood scales, held on with just super-glue, no pins. That was in the late 80's and that knife has pounded many a tent stake since then, and still solid as a rock. If you want the no-frills look, you're pretty safe with JB or slow epoxy.

However, now I always use at least one pin no matter what. It just shows you made extra sure the thing's not going to fall apart. Plus even plain pins can be a good-looking design feature.

 

[bjalongi]

Yeah, I figured that JB weld would show a line. I was thinking that I could use JB weld on the inside of the handle, making sure none squeezed out, and use some clear 2 ton epoxy where the surfaces meet.

However, there could be chemistry issues between the two glues. I'll experiment this weekend to see what types of epoxy are compatible.

 

[James_Terrio]

I don't think you'd gain much by using both (disregarding chemistry issues like you said). Then you got two batches of goop to mix up at once. Just use the epoxy if you want clear and the JB if you want grey or it's not going to show. :thumbup:

 

[galadduin]

If your design of hidden tang handle is without pins it is possible to make it mortised and put a hidden pin in it. Like these I made:

I didn't want a pin on these, it would look terrible... But if you make your scales full flat and match the scale details it is pretty hard to see the joint of a mortised tang knife. When putting the pin it is important to know exactly how thick the handle will be, if you make it thinner you'll have a pin on the middle ...

 

[Will Leavitt]

I generally don't make a hidden tang without a pin if I think there's a stress issue like on a hunting/field type knife. I did make a test knife with JB weld and a notched hidden tang and broke the cocobolo before the blade came loose but I'm still afraid of a knife failure.

 

[Tom Lewis]

Knives used in the ABS cutting contests must have at least one pin.

 

[bjalongi]

Tom: I didn't know that.

Will: I agree.

 

[Steven Kelly]

I don't put pins in many of my hidden tang knives, simply because I don't think it looks good in certain applications ( just my own opinion). I use Brownell's acraglass to epoxy all of my handles on and there is no way the epoxy is going to fail before the handle material does. As long as you incorporate something into the tang for the epoxy to grip to, you should be in good shape..
That is the 1 thing though, that I really got hammered on by the judges with my J.S. test knives. I didn't put a pin in the handle of my Bowie and they all threw a fit. It isn't something that is a pass or fail issue, but they wanted to see pins in everything...

 

[raylaconico]

I think hidden tangs look good with at least one pin. They're pretty strong though as long as you make sure to let the epoxy set completely before you move the knife. I've had to remove handles from hidden tang knives and the only way to do it is to bandsaw and chisel the handles off in pieces.

 

[JTknives]

on my hidden tang knives i don't use a pin. I use my belt grinder and cut little notches on every corner on the tang about 1/4" apart. i have always thought that putting a hole through a tang that is already small just makes the tang weaker, but who knows. i have never had a problem and i only use JB weld but i have started to like the JB kwik weld stuff as its fast.

 

[John Andrews]

I don't put pins in many of my hidden tang knives, simply because I don't think it looks good in certain applications ( just my own opinion). I use Brownell's acraglass to epoxy all of my handles on and there is no way the epoxy is going to fail before the handle material does. As long as you incorporate something into the tang for the epoxy to grip to, you should be in good shape..
That is the 1 thing though, that I really got hammered on by the judges with my J.S. test knives. I didn't put a pin in the handle of my Bowie and they all threw a fit. It isn't something that is a pass or fail issue, but they wanted to see pins in everything...

Dang right on the Brownells AcraGlas! It's all I use. Most of my handles have no pins because it negates the look of fine wood or other nice handle material.

I used to use hidden pins but found that it was not necessary.

 

[Hmathews]

I do both with pins and without depending on the customer's request and the look I'm after. Using correct construction and good materials pretty much negates any advantage of using a pin other than looks. I would rather not have a pin hole in the tang as close to the guard as many put them though. Further back in the handle and it doesn't matter one way or the other.

Were the ABS judges worried about the strength of the knife, like the handle sliding off or something or was it because the knife didn't look like they wanted it to?

 

[MKustom]

I use both methods, for my every day users and hunting knives I prefer to pin them. The pin also makes the gluing process easier, I do a lot of antler bur handles and pressing is quite difficult.