high carbon steel at the hardware store

Atlas Knife Company

Atlas Knife Company

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Feb 16, 2010
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I know, always use known steel. However, we've all heard from people that have one excuse or another for not doing so. The question I've never heard answered is: Is anything at the hardware store known to reliably high carbon content steel? Let me list a few that might be considered:

Files - older nicholson, but it seems the newer ones are no longer 1095
Chisels - ??? might rely by brand, but they do hold a decent edge
saw blades - definitely not (14" dry cut blades are usually 1080, but $150 each)
chainsaw bar - not sure why it would be, but I've seen a lot of knives made from it
lawnmower blades - by design, no
screwdrivers - usually bi-metal at best, and too small
Pneumatic hammer tools - big enough and high toughness by design, maybe 5160?
 
If you go with a circular/miter saw blade, make sure you don't get the carbide tipped kind. Those use softer steel in the center so it won't break as easily, and make for bad knife steel.


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I emailed Nicholson a while ago inquiring the grade of steel for their 10 inch files. They said W1.
 
duurza said:
I emailed Nicholson a while ago inquiring the grade of steel for their 10 inch files. They said W1.
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That would be a first I've ever heard of them giving a direct answer. I've read through tons of searches a guy who talked directly to a guy on the phone and the best he could get was to use a heat treat for W2, and that was for older ones, I believe the black diamonds.
 
Ive seen specs on several Nicholson files. All are around 1.25% carbon with little other alloy. They also said they have used the same steel in their files for years which seems right in that Ive seen spec tests from old black diamonds and new nicholsons were the carbon content is the same.
 
If you can get on the internet to find the answer to this question, you can order from Aldo...
It's much more expensive by the pound to buy steel that's already been made into something else!

I guess that's not a very useful answer.
Could always buy a hatchet.
 
I was teaching some classes for awhile where we took a ball peen and forged it into a hatchet. I went to HB, they had wood handled ball peens for a real low price. So far all the hatchets made have held up real well.
 
Atlas Knife Company said:
I know, always use known steel. However, we've all heard from people that have one excuse or another for not doing so. The question I've never heard answered is: Is anything at the hardware store known to reliably high carbon content steel? Let me list a few that might be considered:

Files - older nicholson, but it seems the newer ones are no longer 1095
Chisels - ??? might rely by brand, but they do hold a decent edge
saw blades - definitely not (14" dry cut blades are usually 1080, but $150 each)
chainsaw bar - not sure why it would be, but I've seen a lot of knives made from it
lawnmower blades - by design, no
screwdrivers - usually bi-metal at best, and too small
Pneumatic hammer tools - big enough and high toughness by design, maybe 5160?
Click to expand...

The issue is "reliably." There are good steels all over the hardware store, but you don't know which ones specifically, and heat treat is a crapshoot. If a post apocalyptic world, I would hoard files and non carbide saw blades. I would hoard coil springs and ball bearings.
 
What prompted me was a customer wanted to buy a forge for her husband, who liked to make knives from rebar. I tried explaining to her that rebar is about the worst steel you could choose, as it's unreliably different from inch to inch in the same bar.

Yes, Daizee, you could buy from Aldo or Admiral, but I find old nicholson files at garage sales for 25¢ all the time. Further, some people like the rustic quality of saying "I built this from xxxxx". Why else would anyone make knives from railroad spikes, knowing that they are generally low carbon? Personally, I've only built 2 knives from unknown steel. I have a good stash of 1080/better. I simply wanted there to be a discussion for those that want to know. Hey, if we're lucky someday, Lowes will start carrying 1084 in aisle 3 with the other steel bars.
 
Atlas Knife Company said:
What prompted me was a customer wanted to buy a forge for her husband, who liked to make knives from rebar. I tried explaining to her that rebar is about the worst steel you could choose, as it's unreliably different from inch to inch in the same bar.

Yes, Daizee, you could buy from Aldo or Admiral, but I find old nicholson files at garage sales for 25¢ all the time. Further, some people like the rustic quality of saying "I built this from xxxxx". Why else would anyone make knives from railroad spikes, knowing that they are generally low carbon? Personally, I've only built 2 knives from unknown steel. I have a good stash of 1080/better. I simply wanted there to be a discussion for those that want to know. Hey, if we're lucky someday, Lowes will start carrying 1084 in aisle 3 with the other steel bars.
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I would suggest she get some coil springs from an auto wrecker then. Not going to be hypereuctoid steel, so heat treat won't be as tricky, even though a good soak for alloys would be difficult.

If she can get them, the railroad springs are consistently tested at 1055 with a bit of alloying. Harrow tines from an agricultural wrecker would be good, and are usually something like 1075. I have a bunch of chisel plow shovels that the manufacturer said were 9260.

You could also hook her up with Aldo so she can order some proper steel.


Edit: many chisels are air hardening steels now. A2 is common for woodworking tools.
 
It is important to understand that in many cases, the manufacturers of these tools aren't going to the mill (or distributor) and saying "sell me 100 tons of 5160/W1/1095/etc."

They are going to the mill with a set of specs (often a mix of chemical AND mechanical) and buying a full mill run. The resulting steel may or may not fall within the bounds of a AISI or DIN grade.
 
This


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Not this
image_24064.jpg
 
I guess it's good to know what kind of steel is in items commonly found around you. You never know. Someday you might be standing on the set of FIF staring at a bin full of junk thinking " what the heck am I going to pick?"......Your time begins, NOW!
 
Atlas Knife Company said:
Yes, Daizee, you could buy from Aldo or Admiral, but I find old nicholson files at garage sales for 25¢ all the time. Further, some people like the rustic quality of saying "I built this from xxxxx". Why else would anyone make knives from railroad spikes, knowing that they are generally low carbon? Personally, I've only built 2 knives from unknown steel. I have a good stash of 1080/better. I simply wanted there to be a discussion for those that want to know. Hey, if we're lucky someday, Lowes will start carrying 1084 in aisle 3 with the other steel bars.
Click to expand...


I know, I know, I do get it.
My reaction stems from the fact that my first knife was made from a file, and it was the most miserable knifemaking experience of my little career. If only I'd been told (and understood) any number of things, including "buy this $5 worth of smarter steel". Now that I know how to not work it hard, not ruin it by annealing it overnight in a wood stove, not use badly battered/stressed files, etc. etc. it's another story. I've made 4 more file knives since that first, but I think it's riskier and more complicated to start with a tool instead of simply tool steel, and thus not the best beginner project.

Despite my grumpiness, I DO find your question interesting (I rate it at 5 files).
Also, I annealed and heat-treated several of those file knives in one of your little forges, thank you. ;)
 
some of the Fastenal store here carry O1 and A2 flat stock. when yard saling, look for starrett straight edges/rulers, some of them are made with O1. Spade style drill bits could be reworked to a chisel. Railroad spikes seem to be the thing around here, but the steel could be anything.
scott
 
scott.livesey said:
when yard saling, look for starrett straight edges/rulers, some of them are made with O1.
Click to expand...

:( That's would be like reusing the Mona Lisa as a canvas for a gradeschool painting project, unless it's already destroyed.
We scrounge that stuff around here and put it back into service.

I'd love to check out a Fastenal, the name makes it sound like a magical place. But they're only open during 9-5 business hours.
 
Atlas - pneumatic hammers ? in the past S-1 steel. Today there are too many different steels used for an application . Many hand saws are throw-away[after years of learning to sharpen them !! ] Many like the better hacksaws are bimetal type.
 
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