High End Audio

E

ErikD

Joined
Dec 5, 2000
Messages
1,875
Back when I was first really getting into music I had grand plans of assembeling a high end audio system. Well at the time I wasn't even in HS, and had no job. I soon realized that spending the kind of money necessary would never happen until I got a job. Well I am now in my junior year of college, and have a job. Still don't really have the money to assemble what would be considered a high end system. But anyway all of the recent threads have got me thinking about it again. I am wondering if I should think of upgrading slowly, as I can.

While in junior high I was able to put together a decent mass market system for my budget of basically nothing. I have an Onkyo TX-8511 reciever, a Sony CDP-XE400 CD player, JBL speakers, and an Acoustic Reaserch sub. I think probably the best audiophile grade piece of gear I have is a pair of Grado SR-60 phones, but they seem to have been damaged along the line somehow. Nothing spectacular for sure, but it plays music, shakes the house, and is way better than what most others in my position would have.

I listen mostly to rock, pop(you know that new stuff;) ), and other typical mass market recordings. Once in a while I will put in a good recording of something else, ie jazz or classical or any other high quality recording. What I am not really sure of is if there is anything I am missing with my system from these mass market new recordings, or even classic rock for that matter. I mean as I understand it a lot has to do with how the music was recorded, and if it is in a crappy space and close mic'd I probably am not really missing out on much 90% of the time. Am I right about this? Or does even a Metalica CD benefit from being played on a true high end system? Thanks for any input.
 
...Metallica WILL sound better. Personally, I have a totally inexplicable taste in music. It really defies any logic. Sticking to metal, let's take Dimmu Borgir - their 2001 P.E.M. album - I own it on ltd. ed. purple vinyl :eek: - my system takes away so much of the usually thrashy-sound that's normally associated with this genre, that it can be played at much louder levels without having a hoover in your head afterwards. :D

You ARE missing a lot of info using a "regular" system. The increase of subtle information every time I make an upgrade can be overwhelming. Some recordings "change" entirely. Beware though, this can be for better or worse! Some of my records are by now unlistenable as they really seem to have been mixed "aimed" at low-budget hifi.
Take for example Never Mind The Bollocks from the Pistols: It now sounds like blaring, thin crap on my system (this is about the sound folks, not about the music itself :p ), while I remember it as being one the best sounding rock-albums I own.

There's a financial abyss in front of you, though. There is just NO limit as to the amount of money you could spend. I went the more economical way and bought much of my gear pre-owned or lightly -cosmetically- damaged. Total value when new would be around $8000, I paid roughly 3/5th of that. The "building" of my system took me almost twenty years, and I'll never be completely satisfied - the promise of ever-ongoing improvement is just too strong.

In your case, to spare you a lot of financial grief, I'd quote Orwell: Ignorance is bliss!

-I edited an error-
 
You most definately can hear a difference.

A lot of that difference can be brought out however by some easy things - like making sure the room is friendly to audio (easier said than done - but "easier" than shelling out 10's of thousands or more on new equipment).

I've got way more money in my system than I care to mention, and while it sounds better than any that I've ever heard, I still feel like I could improve it quite a bit by improving the room, improving some components, and also improving the quality of the source material (but that's again easier said than done - we usually don't have any control over the quality of the recordings).

If you have a lot of disposable income that you're willing to spend, take a trip to some of the higher-end audio shops and take your favorite music with you. Listen to it on your system, then listen to the same source on their equipment. It's true that many dealers just wire stuff together without regard to the quality - thinking that their customers can't tell the difference, but there are a few dealers around that have a nice setup that will impress you.

Good quality speakers, a good quality amplifier, and a good quality preamp are the places I'd concentrate. The speakers are probably the most noticable, but even things such as cabling can make a subtle difference in how the system sounds.

Lastly, if you do end up spending a lot of bank, make sure you purchase from vendors that have been in the business for a while - and will likely remain. 3 years ago when I spec'd out my system and built it (and built the house around it) there were some vendors that were in the game at the time, and are no longer around. I'm glad I went with established companies for the main componentry of the system.

It's largely common-sense - but you can definately hear a difference between good recordings and bad recordings on a decent setup. My particular system is especially intolerant of bad recordings (electrostatic speakers), and I end up either not listening to them, or radically changing how they sound via a processor. The system is, however, especially astute with good recordings, and they just leap out at you if they're good. I much prefer naturally recorded music, and you can pick out nuances in the recording that you'd never hear otherwise. It's like auditory nitpicking :)

Have fun with it...
 
I know I will hear more when I use a good system, the problem is more is what I will be hearing good. This is pretty much the point of good vs. bad recordings. I mean if I have a favorite CD that sounds just great on my current system I wouldn't be to happy to invest in a "better" system only to hear how bad it is. Without having a better system to really referenece it against I can't really conclude much. My guess would be though that the majority of my music is not optimal recordings, and only goes down from there. As a quick listing I have:
Led Zepellin
Pink Floyd
Metallica
The Who
Aerosmith
Eric Clapton
Avril Levign
Kelly Clarkson
Christina Aguilera
Good Charolette

Also throw some recordings that I know to be of good quality in the classical and jazz genres. I spend most of my time listening to the above listed artists though, on CD, and am somewhat sceptical about the quality of the recordings. I don't really have the money to buy a super high end system anyway, so I wouldn't really want to go out to dealers and waste their time.

As I said I would hate to invest any more money into a new system only to find out that the recordings suck, and would have sounded better on my cheaper one. There is nothing at all I can do about a bad recording. I guess I am hoping that someone with similiar music and a better system can help me out here. If a better system will make the CD's sound better, then I would think about upgrading. If it would make them sound worse then I would just keep enjoying what I have. This was a big reason I lost interest in upgrading my system, I was afraid that I would gain nothing or possibly even be worse off.

I realize that most of these are mass market type recordings designed to sound good on an average consumers stereo. That is why I question the qualtiy of these recordings. If they are indeed engineered to sound best on a $200 system they might very well sound awful on a $2,000 system. So if anyone could help me out as to the quality of these recordings I would appreciate it. Thanks again.
 
Eric Clapton has some VERY good sounding recordings. Not all of them sound great, but many of the newer ones (after his Unplugged CD) are quite excpetional. The Pink Floyd remasters from Mobile Fidelity are awesome. Their remaster of Dark Side of the Moon is killer.

And think of purchasing stereo equipment in ratios. Always try to put at least 75% of your money into the speakers. That's where the biggest gains can be purchased.
 
Buzz, that comment about 75% of your budget is so 1972. A hifi system is a chain. One weak link and the whole thing won't perform to it's potential. If you have great speakers and a cheeseball amp, your amplifier won't be able to properly control the drivers. If you have great speakers and amplifier, but a cheap source, you're going to be amplifying a poor signal. No amplifier or speaker can add in missing information or reduce damage done to the signal before it gets to them.

A higher resolution system won't make your favorite CDs sound worse, per se, it will let you hear more clearly what they actually sound like. This means that you will hear the shortcomings of some recordings, but you might be surprised just how good some of the old stuff sounds when played back properly. Not wanting a better system is the equivalent to not wanting new glasses because they let you see more clearly and realize that some people are uglier than you originally thought. Think of how much prettier the pretty ones will look?

Especially now that there's some serious remastering going on with a lot of the old recordings, there's never been a better time to have a good hifi. I recently listened to the remastered DVD-A version of Deep Purple's Machine Head. It was awesome! So was the collection of America's greatest hits. I love old music and even the bad recordings sound better to me on a system where I can really hear what was recorded.

In the interest of full disclosure I should state that I work in the high end audio business as an independent manufacturer's representative, so I have a vested interested in the category.

As Gollnick will be quick to point out, there really are no differences and anyone who is trying to expound the benefits of better gear could only be a charlatan. I disagree.

John
 
Hehehehe.... As far as I'm aware of, the basic principles of sound and electricity haven't changed since 1972. :p

I’m still advocate of the 75% rule. When it comes down to the listening, the quality of the transport, DA converter, preamp and cabling (assuming that you’re listening to CDs) make almost ZERO difference in comparison to items like the amp and speakers. And as long as your amp is putting out enough power, and isn’t a total piece of junk, it’s more than adequate for a starter system. Especially on a starter system, the speakers are where to put the money down.

If I were to hook up a cheapo pair of speakers, I probably wouldn’t be able to tell the difference between a Krell and a toaster oven.
 
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