High-End Stones for TSProf- Naniwa/Shapton Glass?

C

craigdt

Joined
Dec 22, 2019
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I have the TSProf K03, which I greatly enjoy, but I want to get some really nice stones for it.
Cost is not the primary concern and I would like to have an enjoyable experience.

Already have:
  • Matrix Diamond 650
  • Matrix Diamond 2300

Steels:
  • AUS8
  • 1095
  • D2
  • 154CM
  • S35VN
  • CPM-M4
Looking at the Shapton Glass and Naniwa Chosera lines, mainly.

Was thinking about starting out with:
  • Shapton Glass 220
  • Shapton Glass 8000
  • Chosera 800
  • Chosera Chosera 3000
  1. Any issues with mixing/matching brands across the grit spectrum?
    • I'm not necessarily married to those 2 product lines, but they both seem very nice.
  2. Any other stone suggestions?
 
I own the Shapton Pro 1k and 2k and 8k waterstones and really like them. I think they are standouts from that line.

I use them for professional barber shears, kitchen knives and my pocket knives

I also have the chosera 800 and really like everything about it. I also have the 400. I think the 800 is special.

I think you will be really satisfied with any of these on a guided system.

Tactile feedback on the 8k is not the greatest but on a chisel back/scissor ride line or On a guided system I don’t think that’s a factor. Plus this stone is slow wearing which will last nice and long. A+ for a guided system. Maybe a “b” for freehand.

The chosera 800 has it all. I’m not sure you need the feedback on the guided system (which your probably paying for) but it wears nicely, cuts great and finishes smoother than rated. A+ freehand but probably not the greatest value on a guided system or flat back. Maybe someone else’s can add something on the value trade off etc. It does wear fairly slowly so it should hold up great and gives a nice finish above its grit rating. If the price is right it’s a no brainer.

The 1k and 2 k shapton a have nice feedback finish, value and wear. If the price is right in these I would think you’d be happy on a guided system as well
 
I just noticed you said shapton glass. I would still recommend the shapton pro especially if the price makes sense. They wear great.

I just ordered the SG 500,2000, 16000 because I liked my pros so much. I think the decision between the pros and Glass is a value based decision but I’ll have to wait until I put mine to use. On a guided system feedback won’t matter near as much.

I think the guided system removes the need for feedback from the equation allowing you to uses lower priced stones with great results.

I live my wicked edge with diamonds for blow and go. Great factory (or better) results with minimal thought
 
I sharpen free hand, but I've never had any problems mixing brands of stones.
The jump from Chosera 3K to Shapton 8K isn't going to be as big as you think. Sticking on the Shapton scale, it's more like 5K (for the Chosera) going to the 8K.
 
I'm curious why not get the 1100 and 4000 in the diamond matrix?
Or maybe add the 250 for the rough stuff.
 
rm41400 said:
I own the Shapton Pro 1k and 2k and 8k waterstones and really like them. I think they are standouts from that line.

I use them for professional barber shears, kitchen knives and my pocket knives

I also have the chosera 800 and really like everything about it. I also have the 400. I think the 800 is special.

I think you will be really satisfied with any of these on a guided system.

Tactile feedback on the 8k is not the greatest but on a chisel back/scissor ride line or On a guided system I don’t think that’s a factor. Plus this stone is slow wearing which will last nice and long. A+ for a guided system. Maybe a “b” for freehand.

The chosera 800 has it all. I’m not sure you need the feedback on the guided system (which your probably paying for) but it wears nicely, cuts great and finishes smoother than rated. A+ freehand but probably not the greatest value on a guided system or flat back. Maybe someone else’s can add something on the value trade off etc. It does wear fairly slowly so it should hold up great and gives a nice finish above its grit rating. If the price is right it’s a no brainer.

The 1k and 2 k shapton a have nice feedback finish, value and wear. If the price is right in these I would think you’d be happy on a guided system as well
Click to expand...

rm41400 said:
I just noticed you said shapton glass. I would still recommend the shapton pro especially if the price makes sense. They wear great.

I just ordered the SG 500,2000, 16000 because I liked my pros so much. I think the decision between the pros and Glass is a value based decision but I’ll have to wait until I put mine to use. On a guided system feedback won’t matter near as much.

I think the guided system removes the need for feedback from the equation allowing you to uses lower priced stones with great results.

I live my wicked edge with diamonds for blow and go. Great factory (or better) results with minimal thought
Click to expand...

Thanks for all of your input. I've heard nothing but praise for the Chosera 800, so this is further confirmation.

I think I was focusing on the Shapton Glass vs the Pros because of the alleged improved performance of the Glass stones on the harder metals. Looking at pricing on CKTG, it sort of looks like the price difference is pretty negligible between the 2 lines.
 
Ourorboros said:
I sharpen free hand, but I've never had any problems mixing brands of stones.
The jump from Chosera 3K to Shapton 8K isn't going to be as big as you think. Sticking on the Shapton scale, it's more like 5K (for the Chosera) going to the 8K.
Click to expand...

This was another of my questions but it sounds like a large step like 3000 to 8000 isn't a huge concern.
 
sickpuppy1 said:
I'm curious why not get the 1100 and 4000 in the diamond matrix?
Or maybe add the 250 for the rough stuff.
Click to expand...

Yeah, this is a good question. I guess the 2 factors are:
  1. I really want to try some nice japanese stones :D
  2. I didn't see the 4000 Diamond Matrix in stock until recently
Is your suggestion to stay within the Diamond Matrix line? I know sometimes the scratch patterns re:diamond abrasives can supposedly be pretty different vs a more traditional stone
 
craigdt said:
Yeah, this is a good question. I guess the 2 factors are:
  1. I really want to try some nice japanese stones :D
  2. I didn't see the 4000 Diamond Matrix in stock until recently
Is your suggestion to stay within the Diamond Matrix line? I know sometimes the scratch patterns re:diamond abrasives can supposedly be pretty different vs a more traditional stone
Click to expand...
I was more curious why switching brands. Depending on which grit scale being used, many times the overlap or differences in grit don’t blend well is all .
I get the urge to try new stuff from time to time but then it fades as I’m happy with current set up.
 
Go to the grand unified grit chart and compare the stone micron sizes to see where they match up:

https://www.bladeforums.com/threads/the-grand-unified-grit-chart.856708/

Most stones are kind of a family and the progression through them might be better off then jumping around between different products. Like mentioned above if you like the Diamond Matrix stones then you might be better off sticking within that family.
 
I think you really want to stay with the same line of stones when going through the grit progression, they are designed to work that way, or at least should be. Some have many extra stones in the lineup that you don't need, SG, but you will get the same abrasive AND the same bond. Often the bond makes as much or more of a difference than the grit size so don't put too much meaning in grit size when comparing different stones, and don't put much meaning in the numbers on stones, they only tell a little bit about the stone.

Some of your steels really want diamonds and all of them are hard enough that diamonds will work well for them. The Matrix stones don't have any extras that you can leave out when going through the progression so going from the 650 to 2300 is too big, that is from 35 microns to 8. Generally, you want to cut your micron rating in half between grits as you go through the progression. If you decide to add to your Matrix stones I would suggest the 1100 first and probably the 250 next to properly set your bevel for the 650 as it is too fine to really do that. The difference between the 2300 and 4000 is the smallest in that lineup so the 4000 is the first I would drop. Unless you use micro-bevels then you really need to start with a fairly coarse stone to grind down the full bevel, the finer stones are only good for removing scratches or setting small bevels.

I am not saying to avoid good water stones as they have their own benefits when sharpening and have much to teach you on your sharpening journey, but some of your steels are getting a little hard to sharpen for them.

PS, EP always has all of the Matrix stones in stock.
 
craigdt said:
I have the TSProf K03, which I greatly enjoy, but I want to get some really nice stones for it.
Cost is not the primary concern and I would like to have an enjoyable experience.

Already have:
  • Matrix Diamond 650
  • Matrix Diamond 2300

Steels:
  • AUS8
  • 1095
  • D2
  • 154CM
  • S35VN
  • CPM-M4
Looking at the Shapton Glass and Naniwa Chosera lines, mainly.

Was thinking about starting out with:
  • Shapton Glass 220
  • Shapton Glass 8000
  • Chosera 800
  • Chosera Chosera 3000
  1. Any issues with mixing/matching brands across the grit spectrum?
    • I'm not necessarily married to those 2 product lines, but they both seem very nice.
  2. Any other stone suggestions?
Click to expand...

I owned a K02 and bought the entire SG line, I also own virtually the entire SG line in benchstone variation, as well as Naniwa Pro 400, 1k, 5k. I have never used the Pro 800 or 3k.

With that being said, I don’t feel you can make an incorrect choice between the two, however I always guide people to SG as the Naniwa stone crazing makes many people very nervous. I very much enjoyed my concern-free user experience with my K02 and my SG lineup. And to suggest another stone, get a coarse diamond stone. I had an Atoma 140 in EP format and it was amazing. There are also a bunch of resin diamond stones that will probably strike your fancy. The point is to get a coarse, heavy duty resetter that you can beat on. Reprofiling with a 220 waterstone in EP format sucks
 
Thread update-
I couldn't make up my mind, and I wanted to try some different brands so I added a Shapton Glass 220, Naniwa Chosera 800 and Chosera 3,000.

Here they are along with the Diamond Matrix 650 and 2300:
hlJW2oS.jpg


vLP1nhm.jpg
 
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