High handle, low edge, and low tip?

vanadium

vanadium

Joined
Apr 5, 2003
Messages
807
I've noticed a few knives I really like, that have a high handle, low edge, and low point. On these knives the edge is a little (or a lot) more in line with one's knuckles (compared to designs that place the blade more in line with the inside of one's fingers) and the tip is very controllable. I've noticed that a lot of these have French designers. Examples:

- Bastien Coves (Bastinelli Safe, Bastinelli Drago)
- Fred Perrin (Perrin La Griffe, Spyderco PPT)
- Sacha Thiel (Thiel Officer, Spyderco PPT)
- Stephane Ballarin (Fox BRI)

The French don't have a monopoly on this style, but there seems to be a connection. Can anyone tell me what's going on here?
 
I have seen a few knives that have this, and I personally like it. Yes, I have kitchen knives but sometimes when at home though more often when camping, travelling, or out to dinner I will use my knife.

You missed/forgot two, though not French in origin.
Marcin Slysz (Spydiechef)
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Busse had some offerings in OP2W
AR-Trvlr said:
Mini Muk LE
Ergo_Mini_Muk_LE_zpsjdxrsmek__13837.1458169511.1280.1280.jpg


Baby Boom LE
Baby_BOOM_LE_zpsnidczzmg__05037.1456350142.1280.1280.jpg


War Train Handcar LE
WTH_zpsojv5iyhx__81882.1455748590.1280.1280.jpg
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With how the cutting edge is presented and the hand is protected, I can see this working well for plenty of tasks. To the tune that I am on the waiting list for back outs of the MiniMuk.
 
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I can name a bunch more also. I only listed the French ones, because what I find most curious and unexplained (to me so far) is the French connection. But I'm also happy to talk about this design style in general. :smile:
 
Pohl Force foxtrot one is another which comes to mind.
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I'm afraid I can't add anything re the French connection. The only French traditional I can think of with this style is the le thiers.
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They only thing I can think of is how prevalent the food "culture" is in France. Due to that food eating and production implements have taken a more prominent role in daily life.
Take the Victorinox Bread Knife as an example. It is a Folding scalloped edge knife that was designed for scoring loaves prior to baking. Do you personally know of anyone who has a direct need for a Folding pocket knife with that as a main task requiring that the knife be designed around it?
I certainly don't, mind you I do have one of those knives. It is great to stick in the wallet and forget about (along with the Victorinox Secretary).
 
The Grohmann Canadian belt knife fits this description, as would a Nessmuk pattern knife.
I would like to see these characteristics in more modern folding knives, as I find that the high handle, low edge and point offers the best control in my hand.
The Pohl Force designs look good, but they are too big and expensive for me.
Bastinelli BBR2 looks pretty awesome.
Anyone know of any other folders like this that don't cost an arm and a leg?
 
Adding some images...

ixpCQzF.jpg

Above: Pohl Force Foxtrot One (Dietmar Pohl, presumably)

wr8dPVl.jpg

Above: Spyderco PPT (Fred Perrin, Philippe Perotti, Sacha Thiel)

ABHUktV.jpg

Above: Bastinelli Dragotac Compact (Bastien Coves)

Q3CSR3v.jpg

Above: Fox/FKMD "BRI" aka "UNITS ASO" (Stephane Ballarin)
 
Grohmann actually makes at least two folding models, a regular and small.
Regular shown below.
300grohmannlockbladehandles.jpg

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Pericles:
You can likely find a Spydiechef in the exchange for close to (if not quite a bit under) $150 if you watch for one.
 
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NJBillK said:
Pericles:
You can likely find a Spydiechef in the exchange for close to (if not quite a bit under) $150 if you watch for one.
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Thanks for the suggestion. It's an appealing design and I love the wire clip, but I'm unsure about LC200N steel.
I should look into some of the user feedback now that it's been out for a while, I'm not aware of any other knives that use this steel.
I'm not really a steel snob, I'm just dubious of alloys that optimize for corrosion resistance.
 
My guess is it traces back to french chef's knives. Those french chef's knives with a blade where the hand is protected by the blade being in line with the knuckles evolved from French peasant knives. Infact at one time every man carried a knife and this design was typical in France. The French chef's knives come fron this pattern, a knife originally carried for every task a man may encounter.

Only aristocrats could carry swords so the average Frenchman not only ate and did woodwork with these blades but defended his life.

The Fred Perrin Streed Beat and Bowie are also evolutions of this design.
 
Lapedog said:
My guess is it traces back to french chef's knives. Those french chef's knives with a blade where the hand is protected by the blade being in line with the knuckles evolved from French peasant knives. Infact at one time every man carried a knife and this design was typical in France. The French chef's knives come fron this pattern, a knife originally carried for every task a man may encounter.

Only aristocrats could carry swords so the average Frenchman not only ate and did woodwork with these blades but defended his life.

The Fred Perrin Streed Beat and Bowie are also evolutions of this design.
Click to expand...

Great insight, thanks. I wondered about the food prep connection, cause this is one of the great things about this design. Still I wonder how knives like the PPT and so many Bastinelli designs came to adopt this form, while being promoted specifically as martial arts knives. Is there a documented evolution of French martial arts combat using chef's knives?

Adding some images of the knives you mentioned...

pTj38fj.jpg

Above: Fred Perrin "Neck Bowie"

EmnIbPc.jpg

Above: Fred Perrin "Street Beat"
 
Infact the martial arts design stems from the fact that these knives were used as fighting knives. I guess in these French knife designers wisdom they noticed how the pattern eliminates the need for a guard. Atleast that is what I read Perrin's intentions were. The low tip is also a modern addition. The original blades were long chef's knives.
 
Lapedog said:
The low tip is also a modern addition.
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It seems like a pronouncedly 'arched' handle is also a modern addition. Looks like it's borrowed from Persian knives, funny since those have a strongly upswept blades.

I would love to know what the earliest examples are of these design features being combined. We probably owe a lot to Perrin in any case.
 
Cryptyc said:
Tops Sudden Impact (discontinued model)
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Nice, although it doesn't have the low tip. The TOPS "Mini Extractor" is another one like that.

Here's a full wharnie example to compensate ;)

w4r9Qeh.jpg

Above: Ka-Bar "TDI Hinderance"
 
I just found another example. High handle, low blade, low tip, French maker.

TnHEWK2.jpg

Above: Thierry Savidan "Glamrock"
 
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