"High Line" production folder?

Sal Glesser

Sal Glesser

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So what makes one production folder "high Line" and another not?

Does a "high line" steel make a knife high line? Can you have a "hgh line" knife without a high line steel?

If you have a cheap steel in a knife with lotsa "glitz", is it still high line?

Does "high line" simply consist of "asking" for more money?

teach me.

sal
 
"High line" to me means: the best materials used to make the best product possible for those who use they're knives often. Attention to detail, tight tolerances, quality steel blades that provide good edge retention, practical designs, and a good warranty. It doesn't necessarily mean the knife has to cost $150-$200 bucks. Not all so called High Line or High-End production knives live up to everyone's expectations. Heck, I've owned knives with AUS-8 blades made in Taiwan priced under $100 MSRP that have performed better than some high priced American made 154CM "Hard Use" folders.
 
Does a "high line" steel make a knife high line? Can you have a "hgh line" knife without a high line steel?
No, but medium steel is okay.. Let me qualify this. 440c and AUS 8 (min) can be used for a high line knife, I feel, I will pay for this if it's a good design
If you have a cheap steel in a knife with lotsa "glitz", is it still high line?
No
Does "high line" simply consist of "asking" for more money?
No.
teach me.
sal[/QUOTE]

Sal, it seems as though you have some very specific knives in mind when you're asking this question. I don't know exactly what you're getting at, but if you could give something a little more specific it might be helpful.
I feel that a design and handle material also very significantly affect my desire to own a knife. I think that perhaps too many people think FRN is regular plastic, and that's why they won't spend the extra $$, but if you have micarta or G10, or titanium at a lower price, the knife will usually do better. thanks for asking, and if you have any more questions, I'd love to help your sales research. Also, as stated already, quote"Attention to detail, tight tolerances" are also very very important to me also, I can't stand a folder with sloppy seam, gaps, poor lock up, lousy grinds, etc.
 
I would have to add only that pieces such as the Persian and ATR fit MY personal definition of high-end (even though the Persian sells for WAY LESS than it's got a right-to).

Quality materials, fit and finish, classic design lines are all I want to help me decide what's high-end...glitz, not for MY knives.



PS: I will admit that if carbon fiber scales qualify as "Glitz", I'm guilty of being lured on occasion.
 
Hmmmmm

Thoughtful questions ....

What you've done so far is why I'm in the hobby.. Wonder steel combined with really nice scales and a reputation for "THE EDGE".... I'm not given to waxing and waning, but I won't be a Byrd man. I did, however, take on a collector number recently ... Assuming my dealer ever gets that straight ... grinning ...

Dance with the one that brung ya ..... grinning ...

Razz
 
Sal Glesser said:
So what makes one production folder "high Line" and another not?

Does a "high line" steel make a knife high line? Can you have a "hgh line" knife without a high line steel?

If you have a cheap steel in a knife with lotsa "glitz", is it still high line?

Does "high line" simply consist of "asking" for more money?

teach me.

sal
Click to expand...

1. Rarity - a marketing ploy that works as long as the item is desireable. Witness the Benchmade 942-T1 - MSRP of $220. Street price going about $300. Only 500 made.

2. Cheap steel - well...not that cheap. But, 440C might work, if the design is good enough. "Glitz" can really sell - and there is no reason to criticize it. There are many of us in many walks of life, and a 420J blade can cut one piece of paper as well as S30V, period. But, if the "package" is mighty fine - it serves as a conversation piece, which is part of its life in this world. Ideally, I look for both, but have no shame in choosing appearance over "ideal performance".

I have over 30 high quality knives, some worth over $1000 and I love them all, but am selective about how and where I carry them.
 
I think that Chris Reeves' Sebenza probably sets the par for a "high line" production folder. I also think that the ATR and the 25th Anniversary Delica are two Spyderco's I've handled which fall into the "high line" category:

High Line by my definition =

* best available blade steel
* best available handle materials (whether natural or synethic or alloy, $ no object)
* fit and finish taken to a level beyond "good" or functional
* a fundamentally great knife design

This goes back to our old discussions of "Formula 1" knifemaking. We could also consistently add a "Rolls Royce" knifemaking alongside that for more gentlemanly knives.
 
Can a knife be "highline" without using a "highline" steel? I would say yes, to a point.

Will glitz make a knife with cheap steel into a "highline" knife? No, to a point.

Does charging more money for a knife make it a "highline" knife? No, to a point.

The answers are qualified for a few reasons. First and foremost, the perception of the people buying the knife. If the people buying the knife think it is "highline", then the knife becomes "highline" Perception

If a knife with cheap steel is well designed and well made, then the knife with cheap steel could possibly be considered a "highline" knife. Although the question of what is cheap steel comes to mind. The general concnesus seems to be that 440c is at the low end of quality steel. While I agree that the performance of different steels is the factor in this, the other factor is heat treat and proper grind and edge geometry. The best steel, ground incorrectly won't perform all that well. AUS6 ground properly with proper edge geometry will perform a heck of a lot better than the average person here will give it credit. I pose this question, if S30V came out when 440C did, what would we think of it today? Would we still think its that great? Probably not.

One more question, take ANY top maker, he makes a knife out of the cheapest quality materials, is that knife "highline"?

Charging a lot of money for a knife, can create the perception that a knife is "highline".

My last question. Are you asking about what people perceive to be "highline" or are you asking what is actually "highline"? Those two can be quite different.
 
I would define a 'highline' production knife as a knife that is a production knife, but rivals 'customs' in the degree of fit, finish and materials.

The two non-Spyderco makers that I think many consider 'highline' makers are William Henry Knives and Chris Reeve Knives.

In the Spyderco line, the ATR and the Chinook II would be my nominees for 'highline' production folders.
 
No rocket science here, but I think of "quality" as a three legged item.
1 Design
2 Materials
3 Construction
All are of equal importance. A knife could be of first quality construction and of finest materials, but if the design sucks, then it is a poor tool and of no special value.
A good design, well executed, in inferior materials, will always be suspect of likely failure and will therefore not be used much.
Likewise, a first-rate design, of first quality materials, of indifferent construction, makes a poor tool that gives no pride of ownership.
As I said, I see all three parts as equally necessary. I hope that this is useful. Keep up the great work, Sal.
 
I'm not sure what more I could add - what has already been said pretty much describes my feelings, and what Carlos said pretty much refects my thinking of high end.

I don't think you could use a "cheap" steel and end up with a high end knife. Nor will good steel on its own do the job - you have to add quality handle materials with fit, finish and overall workmanship that will set the knife apart from others.

Although the knife would have to cost more money, I don't think it is just about more money - that "more money" you will ask for must relate to quality of materials and quality of workmanship - and to the particular knife you are producing. Consider the jigged bone Kiwi - it is almost high end the way it is -use a more exotic scale material and use Titanium instead of stainless steel and you would have a high end "little" knife. (NO - I am not suggesting a Ti Kiwi :D )

I'm am also thinking of your earlier post about a "G-10 Salsa". In my reply, I asked if you would also change the blade steel to VG-10. (if it was to be manufacturred in Golden, I would have asked about S-30V). I would consider this to be a high end Salsa - just as I consider my Ti Salsa to be high end. It wouldn't be "cheap", I would not however, expect to pay what I would pay for an ATR or an anniversary Delica.

It is relative - materials, workmanship and design - all relative - but relative at a very high level :D

Chuck
 
High Line knives?

High line to me means a quality/precision [ as in tolerances ] product made of the better materials for the knifes' intended purpose over similiar designs made with materials that are not considered as strong or durable.

The Endura/Delica in VG-10 is not highline to me, but they do have good steel.

The Persian is highline as it has the good steel and the construction of the knife in overall materials and workmanship are superior. [ I'm carying the Persian as an EDC for the last month and put the Chinook away for now ].

The Chinook is a high line knife to me, excellent execution in materials, fit and finish.

The Military is highline as well, I just don't like linerlocks for defensive/hard use tools.

High line= high quality in fit and finish and quality in the steel used for the knifes intended purpose.

Brownie
 
For me, high line could refer to materials or aesthetics, or even design.

In regards to materials, I mean no shortcuts.
I wouldn't expect unnecessarily expensive materials just for the sake of braggin' rights, but neither would I expect materials chosen just for the sake of cost-effectiveness.

For example, my very cost-effective Native, which I have carried and used daily for all these years, would switch from cost-effective and practical to high end simply with the addition of steel liners and a modest uprade in scale materials.
I don't see how it could serve me any better, though, than it already does.
That would make it high end in my mind.

In regards to aesthetics, things like turquoise insets and a polished blade would make my humble Native high end.

In regards to design, I think an MBC lock makes a knife high end.

Now, perhaps I have set my standards a little lower than others would, but to me, the next step up fits in the realm of art knives and art collectibles.
By my defintion, high end starts somewhere around $150 MSRP.
Art knives and art colletibles, for me, start around $600.
I have a little trouble classifying the few knives between $350 and $600.

The more I think about this, the more complex it gets.
 
To me, high line means the absolute best knife that a company or person can make. Using the best materials, the best designs, the best tools, the highest amount of precision possible, ect. With a "high line" knife, you don't cut any corners, you produce a fully featured knife.
 
My opinion of high line or high end has changed over time. A few years ago, I remember complaining that the old Viele model "only" had an AUS-8 blade. I remember that Spyderco did upgrade to VG-10, but I honestly was hung up on blade steel and ignored the overall quality of the knife. I also ignored the fact that when the Viele was first produced, AUS-8 was Spyderco's standard steel. I guess if someone were to complain about the Persian being VG-10 instead of S30V, it would be the same.

To make a long story short, overall workmanship is the most important factor with handle materials coming in a strong second. Jigged bone on a knife like the Kiwi automatically makes it a classy knife. The same for bolsters and polished micarta and G-10. As others said, a high line knife have "quality " steel like AUS-8 for it to seen as high line, however, given Spyderco's reputation, most ELU's would want at least AUS-10 or VG-10 for an import and S30V for a domestic.
 
to me a highline knife is a total package. the reason most people spent in the $200+ range is because they want a knife that has the best steels and the best handle materials and the best craftsmanship. i look at it this way...i have a few knives with 440c blades, these are damn fine, and will out last my time on this earth. that being said, who here would pay the same price for an ATR with a 440c or aus10 blade? both are VERY good steels, i dont think anyone will disaggree with that, but they just dont have that "pop" that says "hey, spend 2-300 dollars on me."
 
Sal Glesser said:
So what makes one production folder "high Line" and another not?

Does a "high line" steel make a knife high line? Can you have a "hgh line" knife without a high line steel?

If you have a cheap steel in a knife with lotsa "glitz", is it still high line?

Does "high line" simply consist of "asking" for more money?

teach me.

sal
Click to expand...

You probably will get different opinions on this,but I do feel steel choice is important on a "high line" knife.If I'm going to spend good money on a knife it has to have the top of the line super steel of the moment.The design and excecution of the knife has to be top notch and close to flawless as humanly possible.I own some Chinook II's,they are the best tactical/survival knife for the money, hands down.It is not high line to me though because of the small details,like after making the Spydie hole the outer edges of the hole could have been angled and smoothed out.Small details like you find in the high-end firearms industry.They call it dehorning.Basically,you finely polish and round the edges of materials etc.Theres more to it, but theres a prime example.High line in short, is the best design,materials,fit,finish.This includes, but not limited to perfect grind lines,centered blades,no blade rubbing,perfect lock-up blah,blah, blah.Of course stuff like a rubbing blade and bad grind lines,really aren't acceptable on any knife,specially when you get to 75.00 retail plus for knives,but they are absolutley not tolerated in a high-end production knife.High line knives also should have customization abilities,options etc.Much like the Chris Reeve Sebenza as a good example,or the now the no longer available, Speed-tech Synergy.What an aswome knife,lock and overall design and materials.Man if I was a knife company I would try to buy the design and rights for the Speed-tech Synergy knife and manufacter it myself,ANYBODY Listening to this? I bet I'm not the only one that holds the Speed-tech Synergy as one of the most awsome high-line tactical folders ever offered,I know I miss mine.I know I would love to own a Synergy again,especially if it had a Spydie hole! ;)
 
High Line = Best materials, best workmanship and best design for it's intended use. Though all of these points are debatable to the point of getting nothing accomplished.

It seems that you already have several that would fit this description based on customer input on this forum and elsewhere. Military, Chinook, Persian, ATR (to name just a few) come to mind.

Mike
 
The Materials used. The design really don't "make" it high line, You take a FRN Endura, it's not considered High Line but the design is as good if not better than allot of "high line" knives on the market, So what kept it from being "high line"? The materials used.

The materials used in/on the FRN Endura are adequate for it's price range but on the lower end of good materials. If you changed the blade steel to S30V and the handle material to Titanium......It would be high line.

So I don't think design will make a knife high line but I do think the design can keep a knife from being high line. Example: The Camillus Dominator, Ti handles, S30V steel blade but the knife is plain looking, the blade grind is blah, the design is just ok, this to me keeps it from being in the same league as say a Sebanza with the same materials.
 
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