High performance shells for layering cold wet weather

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Sid Post

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Oct 14, 1998
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As a continuation of my previous post, I am looking for feedback on separate shells for a better overall ability to layer my clothing.

I have SmartWool Midweight Zip-T's, a SmartWool Tempo Stripe Hat, and a SmartWool Neck Gaiter to start my layering. So far, those seem to be very good choices. Thanks BlueJay's!

To continue the layering principle, it has been suggested that I separate my waterproof windproof shell from the insulating jacket. I am wondering if the $100 Mountain Hardware Conduit (pseudo-GoreTex) solution is a good one. The GTX 2.5 shell is $300 and looks really nice but, it I wonder how much is marketing hype and how much is real performance over the cheaper shell.

For pants, do most of these pants replace your jeans or slacks or, are they just a shell you slip on over your regular pants. I think what I want is single pants "shell" that will turn wind and water that I can put on and take off as need during the day. I should also note, that I am leaning heavily towards the IceBreaker BodyFit260 long johns for my base layer "underwear".

With a good high performance shell for high winds and hard rains, should I consider Merino wool solutions for my main insulating jacket and vest?

Thanks everyone!
Sid
 
For outer wear, you'd be hard pressed to find something that's superior to gore-tex. Try looking for the Concurve Gore-Tex jacket. As far as I know, Concurve is the brand that Gore uses to market its product directly, so its as good as getting from the manufacturer themselves...

And it definitely costs way less than $300
 
When the temperature is above freezing and precipitation is coming down as rain, I wear a Marmot Precip Anorak and Full-Zip Pants. I've had this suit for about four years. There are at least five generations of the Precip technology. My anorak is first generation and sheds water well under some conditions, but will allow moisture through on my shoulders and lower arms after more than an hour in a heavy downpour. The later generations are better. The pants have held up well. The only complaint that I have about them is that the side zippers don't fully disconnect, so that makes putting them on a bit more of a hassle than it should be. This suit is very light and packable, and I like the clean, minimal design. Marmot pieces always fit me perfectly, but that of course will vary from person to person.

I also have a Mountain Hardwear Epic jacket that is excellent quality and highly water-resistant, but I only wear it when I know the rain will be heavy, because I prefer the pullover design and fit of the Marmot.

When the temperature is below freezing, I switch to a Marmot Driclime Windshirt and Windpants. This is a thin fleece layer under a highly wind-resistant outer layer. It provides some extra insulation, but is not very water-resistant. So, you would probably be better off with rain pants for your trip, so that you don't have to take both type of pants.

As for wearing the pants, I put them on directly over a base layer(s) when I'm outdoors. In that case, they replace my regular trousers. When I'm in town and may need to take them off, I do wear regular trousers underneath. Society still frowns on underwear alone, even if it's expensive, fancy long drawers...:D Both of the Marmot pants have Velcro tabs that adjust at the waist, so can I fit them over everything. I'm skinny though, so that might not work if you have a thicker build.

By the way, none of the material on the outside of the Marmot pieces is extremely durable, so not a good choice for hiking off-trail or rock-climbing.
 
Arcterynx jackets! The best piece of layering I HAVE EVER BOUGHT was a uber-tight weave fleece from Arcteryx..
 
I've been wearing a Mountain Equipment Coop shell for about 5 years now. Mine has the Gore-Tex XCR membrane. MEC makes great quality gear. The jacket looks brand new, and I wear it pretty much 3 seasons. The XCR membrane is awesome. I'm always dry, no matter what the weather's like. I can even wear it when it's relatively warm, as it breathes extremely well.

Guy
 
I have travelled in Germany in Winter. Depends a lot on your activities. For general tourist stuff I would want a nice heavy sharp looking coat. Something like a parka length wool coat with lots of pockets and weather resistence. For more activity like winter hiking, skiing etc.. I would say a gore-tex type parka with poly pro and fleece below to layer according to temperatures.

A great way to fill this need would be to take the bare minimum and some cash with you to europe. Spend a couple days observing the weather and what the locals use, and then spend a day shopping local outdoor stores. You will come home with some cool souveniers and have something to wear there that fits in perfectly.
 
By the way, none of the material on the outside of the Marmot pieces is extremely durable, so not a good choice for hiking off-trail or rock-climbing.
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I wonder if I'm the only guy here that has worn light weight shorts over my expensive shell pants to keep from wearing out the seat, from sitting on logs and rocks.
 
braddy said:
I wonder if I'm the only guy here that has worn light weight shorts over my expensive shell pants to keep from wearing out the seat, from sitting on logs and rocks.
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I haven't thought about it, but it is an interesting idea. However, looking at the seat of my North Face pants, I don't see any signs of wear despite sitting on quite a few rocks during my last vacations in the mountains.

How do you deal with the loss of access to all the pockets that hiking pants normally offer? I must say that North Face has a very nice layout, including a long, narrow pocket that grabs my Endura like a glove.
 
braddy said:
I wonder if I'm the only guy here that has worn light weight shorts over my expensive shell pants to keep from wearing out the seat, from sitting on logs and rocks.
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That's a clever idea, but I haven't experienced that type of wear. I was thinking of snags that a person gets when they are hiking through heavy brush with exposed briars and broken tree limbs. The nylon outer layer of the Windpants is prone to tearing. I guess this is the tradeoff for the weight savings. The Precip material is somewhat tougher.
 
If you want to travel light like you said in your previous post I would take a look at GOLITE products. Their stuff is amazingly light, but it is not as durable as mountain hardwear or MEC gear. I am an avid backpacker, and climber and all i use is golite gear.
 
"That's a clever idea, but I haven't experienced that type of wear. I was thinking of snags that a person gets when they are hiking through heavy brush with exposed briars and broken tree limbs."



I only did it because as a young teen I was surprised to see my jeans worn at the back pockets. When I put on my first expensive Gore-Tex pants I was really concerned about wear because I couldn't see ever splurging for another pair.

When I was a little boy in Houston, Texas with 100 degree temperatures and 100% humidity, I often wore long sleeve shirts to play in the woods, because of all the briars and tree limbs.

If I were stalking game in those type woods now, I might wear an over sized pair of cheap coveralls to cover my cold weather wear, and to contribute to the quietness of my clothing.

I haven't kept up with the high tech stuff, but I know years ago elements in the military were starting to wear their noisy waterproof gear under cloth outer wear.
 
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