High quality folder vs well made Kit?

E

EdgeCraft

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Mar 27, 2009
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I lust for a high quality custom linerlock folder, or an excellent production one. But I wonder how the "best" kit folder stacks up, if I can pull off an excellent job of finishing the kit. (Not on the 1st try, but eventually). I've never seen a knife kit in person, and I've never made a knife, but I've made most of my furniture, including a Queen Ann secretary desk with hand carved finials; and a hand made lock. What is the quality of kits in this context? I'm new here and this is my first post. Thanks for your help.
 
maybe post up a link to some you are looking at, they can vary widely. or, get a cheap benchmade or spyderco and customize it yourself with some new scales and whatnot
 
it depends on what you mean by quality:

Quality of design? There are a limited number of kits available, usually more traditional designs, or a couple by Darrel Ralph at knifekits.com. The more experience and ability you have, the more you can modify the lines of a kit knife, but only up to a certain point.

Quality of materials? You can buy any kind of handle & bolster material you want to put on the bare bones of a kit knife. For some kit knives you can even buy damascus blades. The blade availability is the limiting factor, assuming you don't want to grind and heat-treat a blade from steel stock yourself - but if you can do that you don't need a kit at all.

Build quality/fit and finish? That is entirely dependent on your skill level.
I can tell you from my own tinkering that it is harder than it looks to assemble a folder properly, even replacing handle scales requires precision in drilling all the holes perfectly - especially for liner-locks precision is crucial.
So you'll want to practice with cheap materials before you start chopping up mother-of-pearl. But if you have all that experience with furniture you will already be familiar with the tremendous virtue of patience, which will save you from torturing too many kits into useless metal.

some links:
http://www.knifekits.com/vcom/index.php?cPath=1
http://www.texasknife.com/vcom/index.php?cPath=119_141_908
 
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I guess by quality I am asking about basic Kit materials, as well as grinding and heat treating.
It seems that you are saying that a Kit by Darrel Ralph would have components with the "raw material" quality of a Darrel Ralph custom knife? The difference would not be in the components of a similar Darrel Ralph custom knife, but in the design limitations, and skill level for altering and finishing the kit?
Or, for instance, are the Kit components designed by Darrel Ralph, but produced by a "factory" rather than hand fabricated by Darrel Ralph, and thus of somewhat less quality?
Again, thanks for helping me out.
 
Thinking about it, its actually a very intriguing concept. Pity I don’t really have the skills or equipment or the skills, or the space, or the skills necessary.
 
You should probably do a few cheap kits first.They really aren't bad knives.You will be able to use them and enjoy them.Then move on to the more expensive ones.It's like everything else,you get what you pay for.
 
OK. Lets say, rounding numbers up, $60 for the Kit, $30 for the handles = $90. A custom knife, same Designer, $700. Is the difference of $610 due to the skills of the custom maker, or is there an inherent lesser quality in the kit itself?
What do you all think?
Anyone with access to both kinds of knives?
(Yes, no matter what, I agree, I think that it would be best to practice on an inexpensive kit first)
 
EdgeCraft said:
I guess by quality I am asking about basic Kit materials, as well as grinding and heat treating.
It seems that you are saying that a Kit by Darrel Ralph would have components with the "raw material" quality of a Darrel Ralph custom knife? The difference would not be in the components of a similar Darrel Ralph custom knife, but in the design limitations, and skill level for altering and finishing the kit?
Or, for instance, are the Kit components designed by Darrel Ralph, but produced by a "factory" rather than hand fabricated by Darrel Ralph, and thus of somewhat less quality?
Again, thanks for helping me out.
Click to expand...

You have to be realistic in your expectations. You kit knife will be "DR" designed, and "DR" inspired, but not a DR knife. It is a different animal. They are both knives, but I would be the similarity ends there.

DR himself can dictate any steel and heat treatment he wants as he is in the knife making stratosphere, no longer worried about price points. With years of making quality knives of his own specifications with his own hands, you are buying his knowledge of assembly, material selection, and quality of said materials. That includes everything used.

A price point has to be met on the kit knives. Someone that wants to jump in and make a knife isn't going to spend a couple of hundred on a kit. So you get AUS8 bulk heat treated blades, bulk cut handle liner and scale materials from a usable but not the best stock, and screws of unknown origin.

If you go to the knifekits site in particular, you can see some amazing work that has been done by folks that buy those kits. No kdding... amazing.

But in the end, is it a DR knife? No. In the end, you still have the lower quality blade (and that's what knife is all about, right?) in a handle of pretty good materials. If you go away from the kit, you can upgrade handle materials, bearing materials, etc., and customize as much as you want. Your finished product may look great and perform quite well, but it still won't be a DR knife.

When you get a DR knife (he's just one example) you are paying for a dedicated professional with many years of experience behind him SUPPORTING himself with his efforts. His reputation and livelihood depend on the quality of his product. You are paying for that time and experience needed to watch over every aspect of the knife making process, select every piece of material used and to make sure in the end it all comes together perfectly.

When you get to that level of commitment and experience, you will no longer be interested in kits. The DRs type knifemaker's standards will be your new high standards, and while the kits will have served their purpose, you will have moved on.

As always, just my 0.02

Robert
 
Thank you for your considered view. It seems that a Kit knife is a good starting point, but not the end point. I do appreciate the experience and dedication it takes to make an excellent custom knife, and that was my starting thought.
I have been able to make professional quality high end furniture as a hobby, and expect the same eventually from a knife hobby.
As I read the posts to my questions, I have also been looking into what it takes to grind and forge a knife. I'm begining to think that maybe I might be able to try my hand at making a fixed blade knife from scratch, then make a kit folder, and then make a folder from scratch, (with many mistakes along the way, I'm sure). Does that sound like a reasonable path to take?
 
I'd start with a kit folder or fixed blade before you start grinding & forging blades from scratch. You wouldn't want to get a nice blade through that process, only to mess it up going through the finishing process for the first time. Or instead of a kit you could buy a fixed blade or folder that you like and then do a handle ugrade &/or redesign.
 
Edgecraft, face it, you're not going to build just one ;)
Go for it, build a kit.
Get a bare blade and put a handle on it too.
Make a matched set :)

A place to look for bare blades
www.ragweedforge.com
 
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