High rise evacuation / large city

N

newadventure

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Jul 24, 2006
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I work on the 36th floor of a 40 story office building in a major city. The evacuation plans, naturally, call for people to walk down the stairs. People are told that they should not take anything with them, just leave.

Now, I have a bunch of useful stuff in my backpack that I carry to work everyday and keep next to my desk. It contains some PSK type gear, extra flashlight, cell phone, emergency phone numbers, first aid, water bottle, business contact info, etc. I keep wondering why I would want to leave this invaluable resource behind if I had to evacuate in an emergency. Also, this is winter, shouldn’t people grab their coats? All companies supposedly have set up a meeting place not-too-far away, so roll could be taken and determined if anyone is still in the building. Some of these meeting points may be outdoor plazas, etc. It would seem that it could be very helpful if people took their “stuff” with them – nearly everyone has a cell phone, maybe a walkman radio for getting information, and possibly other useful gear in their bags / purses.

Depending on the situation, I might have to walk home (25 miles) or part of the way. Or at least wait around somewhere until I can get home or picked up. I’d really like to have my pack and my jacket with me. Also, I have heard where it sometimes takes days or weeks, if ever, for people to be able to go back into the office to retrieve their belongings. I’d rather just take the essentials with me.

As I understand it, the reasoning for not taking “stuff” with you is to keep your hands free, especially if having to walk down a dark stairway. Also, since time may be critical, none should be wasted in gathering things up. But mine is already “gathered”… and in my mind the benefits of having the gear is not something I would want to give up.

I would be very pleased to hear your thoughts and comments.

Peace,
Fred
 
Fred,

In your situation, it is a no brainer. Put your pack on your back and run. You still have both hands free, and you still have your stuff. Don't think for a minute that the ladies will be leaving their purses behind either.
 
I think there primary concern is that people will get caught up trying to save useless sentimental things Files/pictures etc...I think something that is grab and go like a back pack that is ready to rock won't be a problem and I think everyone else is going to be to caught up to give ypu a hard time about it. Also a hands free head lamp and a fleece or wind breaker might no be bad additions to the pack so you can have light in the dark stairway you mentioned and still have you hands free and have warmth if you don't have time to grab your coat. That being said the first thing I would do upon safely evacuating is find the closest uniformed armed peronsnell that you can and stick close....once a panicked mob sees you got the gear to be comfortable and they don't they're going to want you to share...
 
Although you wouldn't find me on the 36th floor of anything, ever, I agree with Rescue Riley. Good suggestion about the head lamp. As far as leaving your pack behind - NOT ON YOUR LIFE! (literally)

How about 370 feet of rappelling rope? :D

Doc
 
You're not going to "get in trouble" for taking your stuff. I think you're right, the suggestion is to keep people from trying to pack up their valuables and sentimental items before evacuating. The only problem I could see would be getting tangled up in crowded conditions but still - it's not going to get you fired or arrested (I don't imagine so anyway!)

Take the bag.
 
Actually Doc's funny... but since I am paranoid I would think about the rope in a bag or a solo chute packed and ready to deploy. All of which sounds ridiculous until you see the documentary "Falling Man" then it seems like a sound investment.
 
I've worked in a 73 story high rise and my pack and a good flashlight are going with me. Many stories I read of the World Trade Center evacuation told of the problems with no light. People were really disoriented in the total darkness of the stairwells. Even lighted watch dials and cellular phones helped to tell which end was up. An LED microlight is on my keychain all the time after reading that.

I agree that the evac planners don't want people trying to drag a ton of stuff down the stairs or lagging behind to pack up their laptop. They'll pry my PSK from my dead cold fingers.....
 
May I also suggest some kind of breathing protection, even a bandana, handkerchief, or washcloth.

Smoke may very well be a concern.
 
Marcinek is right about smoke.

One of my former colleagues was in Tower 1 on 9/11. She made it out, but has some observations right in line with Fred's question:

1. She grabbed her stuff--it was ready to go. She left only her coffee mug.

2. People were planning to grab important client folders, etc., and she sensed that this was no fire drill, and hollered at people to just leave it.

3. In walking down the stairs, she discovered that 55 floors down is exhausting. Plan for that.

4. Also, you spend more time standing and waiting on the steps as floor after floor after floor merges together down only two sets of stairwells. (As you know, the folks in the other stairwell almost all died.) She spent far more time standing than descending.

5. As the crowds finally got moving downward, they would have to stop again: firemen were rushing up. This means everyone has to move over to one side of the stairs, which took forever from her point of view.

6. The one thing she wished she had that didn't was a flashlight. It's a tough descend when you can't see where your feet are going.

7. Fortunately, someone had a big bottle of water that was passed up; this wasn't for drinking, but for dampening whatever piece of cloth you had to keep out the dust. She didn't have that much smoke thanks to the fire doors, but they had a lot of dust raining down into clouds due to the vibration of the building.

Some lessons learned.
 
RR, I wouldn't leave without your backpack and a jacket. As you mentioned, i think the general rule to 'just leave' is so people don't waste time hemming and hawing about crippity-crap. Your backpack is an awesome, hands-free implement resource that could save your life.

marcinek said:
May I also suggest some kind of breathing protection, even a bandana, handkerchief, or washcloth.

Smoke may very well be a concern.
Click to expand...

It may not help much with smoke, but if RR is an EMS supervisor he probably has access to N95 respirator masks. A properly fitted mask could buy precious time, even if it is seconds. Primarily, an N95 mask protects against particulates, not gases.

RR, if I were you, I'd assess the glass that is used in your building, assess the building construction and layout, thoroughly scope out the surrounding buildings all around your building, and try to pre-plan 1, maybe 2 alternative routes out.

I'll also highly recommend a FF bailout kit with maybe 50'-75', just in case you need to 'skip over' a few floors (galss assessment comes into play here). If you have no rope/rigging experience DISREGARD THE BAILOUT KIT SUGGESTION. If you are interested and have no experience, hook up with a climbing gym, and 'learn the ropes' (pun intended). Take a fwe real rope classes and get real hands on experience before doing anything with ropes. I'd advise against learning second-hand from someone who knows but isn't an instructor.

DISCLAIMER: Rope-related activities such as technical rescue, self-rescue , climbing, rapelling, and related training are all very dangerous activities and could result in serious injury or death. Be certain that you have obtained the skills necessary to undertake these activities and can evaluate situations and conditions to make a proper assessment.
 
My coworkers and I have had this discussion after two fire drills that had the whole building evacuated. Our conclusion - we would have to crowd surf everyone down the stairs in order to survive.:D Seriously though, both times we had a fairly orderly exit to the stairs, but once inside the stairwell it was a clusterf**k. I timed it - 10min to get down two (2) flights of stairs!!:eek: Yeah, well, you can kind of think how things would end up. People were chattin' away and hanging out by the entryways on their floors, not "entering the highway" in an efficient manner, and those waiting for their pals to catch up to them. Plus, there were many people that were just plain out of shape - well, they were really out of shape (a couple had to have assistance from EMTs at the bottom). I have a backpack that I always grab, along with my jacket - among other things in my pack, there is always a flashlight of some sort (or two) and a bandanna to wrap around my mouth to help with the smoke - and of course my knife. I understand that these were drills, but I believe that they should be taken seriously - like the real thing.
 
Watchful said:
Errr.... so if he *does* heed your warning, you *are* responsible for his demise? You might reword that.
Click to expand...

Deleted that line. Thanks Watchful! :)

darklight943 said:
I understand that these were drills, but I believe that they should be taken seriously - like the real thing.
Click to expand...
Trainings should ALWAYS be taken seriously. The seriousness is always a problem when you have a larger group of people. It happens in professional settings (i.e. EMS/Fire), too, unfortunately.
 
Like newadventure, I also work in a 40 story (on the 4th floor) office building in a major city in Chicagoland.

And they take the fire drills seriously. We are timed, and if we exceed the time, we get our asses chewed. Its a good thing.

Also, in rereading the original post, I see that having to walk home is a concern of newadventure's.

May I make another suggestion to include in the bug-out-backpack?

Cash. If you make it out, that, along with a cell phone, should get you home.
 
After spending time monkeying around in trees as a professional (if rookie) arborist, I still would hesitate to attempt any type of external descent. In the situation which would warrent such extreme actions, your going to be going 1000 miles a minute with adrenaline. I still remember the first time I was up a tree. 80 foot Oak, no branches for 60 feet, about 6 or 8 foot diameter trunk. I was shaking so badly up there I literally couldn't tie in. And that is with a saddle (aka climbing harness) and being bucked in (short clip on rope around trunk to lean out against; quite safe). In an emergency, assuming you also had a harness at the right gear, your likely to fumble your knots or rigging and end up a mere splat on the ground.

I suppose its not the worst idea, though, if you were to keep all your knots pre-tied and your gear ready to go, checked over weekly or monthly.
 
Grab your pack as you leave, just keep your hands free. Tripping down a staircase with your hands full might lead to your face getting rearranged, as well as jamming up the foot traffic.
 
Thanks for all of the comments and suggestions, folks. Very much appreciated.

I have a bandana and handkerchief in my pockets at all times; figured I could improvise a mask with them - the bandana is long enough to tie around and secure the folded up handkerchief in front of the mouth/nose. Carrying water to wet them is a good idea; I'll make sure there is always at least a little water in the nalgene, even if not full. I do have a a couple of led lights on me at all times (photon on keyring and aaa cmg/gerber in the other pocket), but a little led headlamp would be a good thing. I probably won't be doing any of the rope/climbing stuff, though I appreciate the thought. Yes, I've wondered about getting down the stairwell if crowded, plus emergency people going up... Hopefully we'll not have to face that, but one never knows.

I will sort through all of your carefull responses and make updates to my pack (cash, windbreaker, etc.) and my thinking. I do plan to put it on my back if the time ever comes; thanks for confirming.

If anyone has additional comments, please keep 'em coming. Thank you!

Fred
 
hikeeba said:
It may not help much with smoke, but if RR is an EMS supervisor he probably has access to N95 respirator masks. A properly fitted mask could buy precious time, even if it is seconds. Primarily, an N95 mask protects against particulates, not gases.[/COLOR]
Click to expand...

Carry the N95 mask. It takes up almost zero room and is certainly better than nothing
 
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