High Risk Behavior

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Mar 22, 2002
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When I was 22 I was only mildly surprised to find a group out of San Francisco which was called the Suicide Club. They had T-shirts featuring a Skeleton and the Golden Gate Bridge. They would illegally climb the bridge, and actively admired those persons who committed suicide by leaping off it. This was seen as a kind of super graduation ceremony, and many of the members in fact did plan on killing themselves at some point. And did.

Something in the forum recently reminded me of Risk, and what we allowed and did not allow in our own lives. Many people see knives as 'high risk', and certainly firearms. Motorcycles, fast cars, bungie jumping, some forms of MT biking and skiing, free hand climbing, river rafting, back country hiking, large predator hunting....we've a long list.

I think a lot of the folks in knife and gun forums get a kick out of the percieved 'high risk'. Certainly, no one here. But we're aquainted with the Ninja wantabe's and SOF and various 'dream' scapes the individual paints for himself- and sometimes for others to see and hopefully 'admire'. There is ego involved with the percieved 'control' of high risk behavior. In a society where individual responsibility and decision making is quickly being degraded both by Govermental regs and cultural beliefs, this percieved control is gratifying to many.

There is a fascination with death in our society.

So many things of intrinsic interest include high risk. Knife making is not entirely safe, if you think about it, nor the operation of machinery. We take risks in many of our leisure pursuits, life hobbies, and careers. Crossing the street is risk, living in a large City, or proposing Intelligent Design if one is a non-tenured professor at an American University.

Sometimes the rewards of risk are much greater than the chance of failure. The individual makes these decisions.

What's all this mean? Not much. Just thinking out loud. Without risk our lives would be boring. To overcome risk requires a kind of super responsibility. When you handload ammo you are practising safe procedures- not unlike the extra attention of a provider in the medical field. Shooting safely makes for a stronger, better person, not so much because he may become a crack shot, but the presence, authority, and awareness he developed along the way.

Contrast this to intervening in the lock down adolescent ward of a Psych Unit, where the angry kids don't plan on living past 30 and their idea of acceptable risk involves combining PCP, a pint of Old Kick Head, and 5 hits of blotter acid while bungie jumping. I've seen adorable house wives in huge SUV's on the highway involved in more high risk behavior than an Indy racer, yet totally oblivious to the fact going 70's mph on ice pack, even with all wheel drive, is suicidal.

There is a real event of personal growth and responsibility, and a real event of illusion and make believe. Picking your way between the BS and the real strength is all part of living.

It all beats the hell out of me. I think using my chainsaw more risky than a 18" Khuk, but I've both jump a little too close to a limb for comfort.

One thing I always admired Uncle Bill for was his Safety Thread was one of the largest threads in his forum.

munk
 
Great post, munk.
Risk makes it all worth while. I enjoy my motorcycle, but I ride out in an area where traffic is at a minimum, fully armorred, and at a safe speed. If i spill over will i get hurt? Oh yes, Broken collar bone at the very least. Could I get killed? Sure. I'm doing 60 one minute, then bumping and rolling down the road with 500lbs of sparking steel and rubber gaining on me. Will I smash into a guard rail at 200mph trying to lean my bike at 17 degrees on a hairpin turn? No. I stay away from bikes like that and behavior like that. I take as much control in my risk behavior as I can. If you hear about ol' Steely biting it on his motorcycle (or really any accidental death) you can bet it was because of "the other guy". I draw my risk line in the dirt right there. I refuse to meet my maker as a "Hey, Y'all! Watch this Sh**!" guy.
Risk is scary. There are so many ways to hurt, disfigure, and kill ourselves out there. I just had a wedding of 200 people out in the middle of nowhere really. Did some of them drink too much and then drive home or to their hotel? I'm sure of it. Some of my very best friends rolled the dice that night. luckily, they beat the house this time. We've all done it at one point or another. It's a risk to chop with large knives, it's a risk to run a yellow light, it's a risk to not chew your bite of ham sandwich 47 times before you swallow, it's a risk to EAT a ham sandwich (on your heart).
I will never be a thrill seeker. I'll always be boring and a stick in the mud. You'll never catch me doing 110 on or in anything (besides a plane...and i HATE those). Am I a bad person for it? Should I be looked down upon because I'm not "living life to the fullest"? No, i don't think so. No more than I should shame my finger at those that live like they are trying to die.
I once had a one armed car salesman tell me that "Sometimes you gotta roll the dice." when he was trying to sell me my Civic (which i bought..but not because of that). I half chuckled to myself as he had lost his arm in a stupid accident. A man that had rolled and lost was still trying to sell me on this. If that wasn't ironic enough, he was trying to tell me to "roll the dice" as I was buying the safest car on his lot. Steely the risk taker, indeed:)

Jake
 
Risk is a part of living. I'm almost 60 years old and I still take risks but they are usually well thought out calculated risks. I don't do it for the fun or thrill of it but sometimes it just has to be done. I still remember taking an L turn that I didn't know was there on (it seemed like) 2 wheels in an old 1954 Buick. Speed was 60mph. I was 17 years old and should have rolled the car and died. Learned a very important lesson about life that night that I've never forgotten.
 
IN my drinking days only 'there but for the Grace of God go I" allowed me to stay out of the special group who'd commited vehicular homocide. IN retrospect the illusion of control was only that; an illusion.

A sad part of motorcycles is 7 out of 8 accidents are caused not by the biker, but by the other guy on the road.

There are no guarentee's in life, and control over the environment is a popular illusion.



munk
 
I took all kinds of risks. Drag racing on the streets, lots of drugs, climbing cliffs on the beach at night, one night stands, bungee jumping. Now I thank God for watching over me when I ran where angels fear to tread.

These days I don't take any more risks than I have to. I drive the speed limit, I don't play any sports that are going to win me any broken bones, no drugs that aren't prescribed.

I remember reading somewhere that in order to be old and wise you must first be young and stupid. I'm working my way (I hope) towards the former. Good post Munk.

Frank
 
Calculated risk is good in my book. Of course, some people are too stupid to make a good judgement, like the crotch-rocket riding jocks wearing no helmet- only shorts and nikes while zipping through traffic on their ego boosters. I have often seen people riding motorcycles with sport sandals and swim trunks.

Its different when you take your life in your own hands while engaging in risky activities. You make your tradeoff between the risk and the rewards.
 
Life was considerably less risky before the advent of the cell phone.
 
searching for the controlled risk seems to be quite a market. Think of canyoning, bungee-jumping, extreme ----ing (fill in an -ing you can think of). A lot of things are marketed as "outdoor" and "extreme" but are not really - someone books an "adventure trip" in a travel-agency today - but sues it when something true adventurous happens.
I do a lot of caving during the summer months and I like being in these surroundings that formed some millions of years ago. Exploring and climbing there is a risk. There is no cell phone, no GPS, no easy access for an ambulance team, not even per helicopter. I leave the name and number of the cave with my wife and give her an "alarm-time", I never go alone and have climbing equipment and first aid pack with me. It is dangerous, but in some of "my" favourite caves I see more and more tourists equipped by commercial agencies - that do not know how to behave, to respect the critical environment and to be safe. They have an "adventure" but do know nothing about how dangerous it can get. when I see or hear them I dissappear into the nearest hole...

and this looks like this
(if you click "zurück" (back) or "weiter" (forward) there are some more pics of caves that show why I like it - there are cathedrals down there that were built by god...)
Andreas
 
P.S. forgot to write that I like your post munk.
I think it was Freud who said that man has a drive to death that results in aggression. Maybe there is more - that is why we do risky things on purpose, watch horror films etc. Maybe we have to feel how fragile life can be to appreciate it again - and while pursuing these activities fear is our lifesaver. what a contradiction...

Andreas
 
I lead a boring life. I don't take many risks and probably am sadder for it. But life is a compromise.

I decided long ago that I did not want my last words to be "Oh Sh*t!"
 
I miss those adrenaline charged moments when I was younger and more willing to take a risk. With a wife, 2 small boys and being blessed by not dying from the cancer I have I just count myself lucky to be alive every day.
 
Without intending to offend anyone, I invite you all to consider this from an evolutionary standpoint: what are we, as a species, designed to do?

We have all this hardwired behavior from a simpler, yet more hazardous, time, and much of it is no longer applicable to our lifestyles. When confronted with stress our immediate impulse is to either run or fight. We're designed for a lifespan fourty years shorter than what we can reasonably expect to achieve today and we can't figure out why the human body starts breaking down after thirty. We grow up on high fat, high protein diets that we're not opimized to handle, reach heights and weights that were nearly unheard of even a century ago, and complain about our bad backs and knees. Honestly, I can't believe that we're not all crazy. (Perhaps we are.)

Is it that we're simply engineered for a higher degree of perceived danger than most of us receive today? Do we engage in self-destructive behaviors or intentionally take risks in an unconscious search for what was? You'd have to ask the psychologists about that. I don't bungee jump, never went skydiving, and don't ride a motorcycle. I do drive excessively fast on occasion for the sheer joy of it and I find the idea of chopping things up with sharpened pieces of steel pleasurable. It takes all kinds I suppose.
 
I kind of agree with you on this one, Dave. There is a whole "new" field on Evolutionary Psychology that tries to explain why we do what we do. I don't know how valid it is as a psychological field as I have yet to see any imperical data on the whole thing, but it kind of makes sense. For example, men are drawn to women with larger breasts and butts because it means a healthy milk source for their ofspring as well as a fat reserve for the winter (i'm not making this up, folks. I promise). etc, etc, etc. I don't know how you would test this, but it's kind of cool to talk about in a hypothetical situation. Great for starting fights with your wife;)
I think that you're right. We are wired for a different lifestyle. We are animals after all. Animals are machines that provide a certain function, wear out, and are replaced by another. Our brains lept beyond our bodies. Could be a pearl or truth, could be blown smoke. I'm not smart enough to know:)

Jake
 
Dave is definitely on to something.

Remember, however, that the whole world is not America. Not everyone on Earth does this.
My grandfather would have laughed at these guys.
Working on a farm is high risk. Anybody want to question the sanity of farmers?

Tractor drive shafts will pull your arms off in the blink of an eye.
You all know what threshers and combines will do to you.
Animals decide not to go up the ramp and to turn around and walk on your face.
Breathing DDT for 60 years aint good either.
slingblades will take a bite out of your leg.
Corn silos will explode if you have any sparks in that dust-filled air.
Axes, shovels, barbed wire, stump-be-gone, you name it. The old way of life had more risks in its quotidian menu than modern city life.
 
Great post, Munk!!! What a topic. I'm a mostly mild mannered accountant now, pretty educated. I wear glasses sometimes. No one where I work knows anything about my personal life other than wife and kids.

Spending your life time in martial arts, let alone real ones, can be a strange thing. Risk is part of it and can't be avoided. Martial arts have made me look and confront the reality of my impermenance on more occassions than I remember. It has to be balanced out with elements of life that are more preserving and creative to keep an individual healthy. I drive by to check on my mother and step-father at least once a week. I look at this golf course on the way. I respect golfers, and have no problem with them. I have, on more than one occassion given strange thought of the differences on Saturday mornings. They are enjoying a beautiful landscape and playing a peaceful game, and I'm going to train to inflict bodily harm as efficiently and effectively as possible. I am, in general, living a little closer relationship with death. I don't really have a point to make in all this, it's just that I think some people are more aware of the inevitable cycles of nature than others.
That is not to say that golfers can't have the same awareness. My step-father, a wonderful man, played golf to relieve him of the stresses of a loved one dying of cancer.

I was racing cars, getting into fights (not starting them), and getting into college bars when I was 15 years old, riding to a nearby town on my old man's harley to do it when he was out of town. I lived an active life as a warrior for a number of years, retiring myself from that life before I faced that really bad retirement package that looked inevitable. Now, I've been in college for 10 years, finishing my very last semester this December. It's hard to remember myself in those days sometimes. I wouldn't change anything, I just hope that my son doesn't feel the need to go the same dangerous route that I did. It's easy to not fear death when it's just you. No problem. Kids, however, and loved ones... that makes risk REALLY scary. I'm kind of glad I'm a quiet accountant now.
 
Excellent thread, Munk. Very thought provoking. Plus I like everyone else's thoughts, and want to thank them for sharing them, as I am young, and I try to learn from folks that have been living life a bit longer than I have.

Dave Rishar's post brought to mind a passage from Robert Young Pelton's book 'Come Back Alive,' where he writes:

"...Base jumping, snowboarding, skateboarding, surfing, street racing, drug use, and juvenile sports are considered "bad" sports that require tattoos, piercings, sticking your tounge out alot, and waving your fingers around like you're trying to dry a booger. Little is said about dealing with the stress of day-to-day living and keeping a sense of wonder and humor.
"Remember that this generation grew up in car seats, Jolly Jumpers, day care, and bungee jumping. Their "dull" grandparents lived through world wars, mass genocide, nuclear bombs, and global depression..."

If posting copyrighted material is taboo here, I have no problem with cleaning it out.

I guess that statement shows what an extreme risk-taker I am. :cool:

Take care.
 
Everyone decides their own level of involvement. There was a time when my job gave me all the perceived danger that I could ever wish for. When I think of the close calls I'm very thankful that all I have to show for it are some sore joints, a few scars, marginal hearing and a powder tattoo. I'm very much looking forward to a new line of work.

Perhaps I'll be skydiving next year, and there's a judo club in town that I keep meaning to check out. Who knows?

Deliberately taking risks is much like seasoning your food with wasabe; you always want to add a little more until there's too much, and then you're sorry that you did it. But that's one of the things that makes life so enjoyable, I suppose.
 
Compared to others here I haven't really done much risky behavior. Though driving down the highway at 55 while scarfing down some Hardees Slammers or a Thickburger should count for something. Another great thread by Munk.

Bob
 
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