Higher carbon than 1095?

ColsonCustoms

ColsonCustoms

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Oct 19, 2015
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Is there any domestic "simpler" steel that has higher carbon than standard 1095 (1.3ish%)? Something to compete with the Japanese White #1.
 
There is no real need for carbon beyond 1.00% except the few steels that are forged, like the 1.3% Japanese white steel and 1.20% W2. These have carbon to be lost in forging , welding, and folding. All carbon beyond .84% is going to have to find something to do. A little bit will make some harder carbides, a little will combine with some of the minor alloy ingredients, and any excess beyond those good uses will find trouble to get into. Go too far past 1.3% in a simple steel and the stuffs becomes un-forgable and brittle. Get past 2% and it starts becoming cast iron.

It is a common misunderstanding that more carbon makes the steel harder. In most cases, 1084 gets as hard as 1095. The best policy is to use the carbon in the steel to the best advantage, which means tying up .84% of it and leaving the rest where it is.
 
I though W2 would be a great choice, pretty close to the Blue #2, minus the Cr & W. Probably performs about the same. Still about 1% carbon though.
 
Cast iron is 3% carbon. It can't be forged or hardened like a knife.

Additional info -
I had a question by email about some stainless steels. Here is the reply:

I expected someone to ask about high alloy and stainless steels.
Many high alloy tool steels and most stainless steels need more carbon to make the excess carbides with the large volume of alloy ingredients. A few have 2.5 to 3% carbon.

Some high alloy steels have as much as 40% non-carbon alloy ingredients, while a simple hi-carbon steel, like Shiro-gami, has less that 2% total alloy content, of which 1.2% is carbon.

This is different from the iron and carbon content of cast iron.

A good thing to know is that there needs to be some chromium left un-bonded to carbon or it won't be stainless.
 
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Reason I asked is because I would like to do a San Mai type sandwiched billet with some higher carbon core (just for hardness, W2 or 1095/84 may be the way to go) and something like 15n20 on the faces.
 
ColsonCustoms said:
Is there any domestic "simpler" steel that has higher carbon than standard 1095 (1.3ish%)? Something to compete with the Japanese White #1.
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Quote from newjerseysteelbaron .....

Nicholson Files

These files are NOS from the early 70’s. They are all made with 1.3 Carbon Steel as opposed to .95 (1095) and Rockwell out to 72=RC.
Click to expand...
 
ColsonCustoms said:
Reason I asked is because I would like to do a San Mai type sandwiched billet with some higher carbon core (just for hardness, W2 or 1095/84 may be the way to go) and something like 15n20 on the faces.
Click to expand...


If you have W2 or 1095, try welding mild steel cladding. The carbon migration is gorgeous. If you use 15n20, the migration is less pronounced, looking more like lines in Damascus. I've been playing around with this a bit, and much prefer the look of the mild cladding. Too long at welding temp and the carbon will completely migrate though, leaving you with basically 1060. If you can weld it up in a couple heats, you will be fine.
 
"A good thing to know is that there needs to be some chromium left un-bonded to carbon or it won't be stainless." Stacy

So basically, what you're saying is that with something like a high carbon D2 (at 1.4-1.6% C & 12% Cr) there isn't enough "chrome" left after forming carbides to impart stain & rust resistance? I know it's great at wear resistance, but it's said to lack toughness, depending on heat treat & shape, etc.
 
Exactly. The more carbon and or chromium, the more carbide. Too much carbide left undissolved and there's not enough chromium to provide full stainless behavior.
 
Does the type of mild steel matter? Also, during heat treating, will it toughen up some even though there isn't enough carbon to fully harden it?
 
I've only welded a couple billets so far. Others are much more knowledgeable than me. I've been using 1018.
 
If making a low carbon san-mai the best way is to put a thin layer of nickel between the steel layers. That stops the carbon from diffusing. It is usually done with pure nickels sheets around .002-.004" thickness. The nickel also makes a neat faux hamon when the blade is etched.

The best contrast from the steels and softness in the sides is from a high carbon core and a very low carbon side. 1008 or 1018 work well with 1095.
 
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