Hiking Clothes

K

kmclye

Joined
Dec 6, 2000
Messages
126
Has anyone here tried out any non-layering non-Goretex school-of-thought outdoor clothing? I have been coming across sites disputing the efficacy of the wicking+fleece+Goretex layering.

One site (Stephensons Warmlite on their vapor barrier clothing) recommends a type of non-breathable shell, the theory being that one should avoid sweating as much as possible, so a shell that maintains high humidity over the skin is desirable, worn with much less insulating clothing than otherwise. This summary doesn't do their theory justice - read it in full on the warmlite site if you want to understand it fully. Of course warmlite has a vested interest in preaching this theory but that doesn't mean they are wrong.

Another site stresses the importance of speed in wicking and fast drying (Michael's Ultralight Backpacking Site), the conclusion being that one wears either a single garment with two different layers of material fused or two garments, one for each function.

There are lots of hikers with very little tolerance of cold. Well OK, there's me at least. Anyway, carrying a fleece and a Goretex really bulks out a daypack and it would be nice to reduce the volume a bit if it can be does without compromising one's tendency to hypothermia.

Has anyone tried out these or other theories or any suggestions for reducing the carry volume of insulating wear? Many thanks!

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" ... for I am a bear of very little brain and long words give me trouble."
 
I've read of both schools, but I've not yet tried anything from the non-layering non-breathable-fabric school. I also have a tendency to easy hypothermia, so I always try to err a little bit on the "have an extra layer in or on the pack just in case" side. I am also very quick to notice that I'm getting too warm and to strip layers off as necessary.

One other thing that might be worth considering if you don't mind the extra weight is to carry some chemical heat packs. These weigh a few ounces and run for at least 12 hours, some put out significant heat for as many as 20 hours. They can be shut down by just putting them in a plastic bag and they get warm again when you take them out. I always have at least one of these on me at all times (in my day pack at work too) in the winter, and usually more than one since sometimes they go bad if they get too old. If I'm traveling with others, I encourage everyone in the group to carry at least one.

Do you happen to have any URLs for those companies you mention?


 
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by matthew rapaport:

Do you happen to have any URLs for those companies you mention?

[/B]</font>
Click to expand...

Stephensons warmlite is at http://www.warmlite.com/

Michael's Ultralight is at http://www.monmouth.com/~mconnick/clothes.htm

I also have heat packs but it has never occurred to me to use them for non-emergencies. It's just that they get used up and need to be replaced whereas with a piece of clothing, you get to use it over and over, particularly when you are travelling for several weeks/months at a time.

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" ... for I am a bear of very little brain and long words give me trouble."
 
Thanks for those URLs. Nothing like a few cute women in the nude to draw attention to your product! More companies ought to have the guts to try it
smile.gif


I too only use the heat packs in emergencies, but an "emergency" for me is any time I'm outdoors (and can't get indoors) when the temp goes lower than I expected and I don't have enough clothing to take care of the problem. As temps descend, and once I've put all my layers around my core body, I'll add a watch cap, then gloves, and if they are not enough fall back on the heat packs. I think 95% of the time I've had to use them was to prevent someone else from getting hypothermic. They can be good first aid.



[This message has been edited by matthew rapaport (edited 05-10-2001).]
 
Speaking of heat packs....

There exists a version that is re-usable. I have seen them for sale, and a buddy of mine swore by them. They are a gel in a bag, you bend a tab inside, that starts a reaction, heat issues, the gel hardens. To recharge you boil them?

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"To wait for luck is the same as waiting for death." -Japanese Proverb

"A journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step." Lao Tzu

"We will either find a way, or make one." Hannibal, 210 B.C.
 
Marion, I've used those heat bags quite a bit for ice fishing. I've had pretty mixed success with them. They seem to "go off" on their own sometimes so that I end up on the ice with a heat pack that doesn't work. And sometimes they don't "reconstitute" very well. Anymore I just prefer the kind you shake, use, and throw away. They also tend to be less bulky and easily slip into a mitten or glove. They will last for hours. I love the reuseable idea but the reuseable ones I have don't reuse very well.
frown.gif
Others may have a different story and I'd love to hear more.

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Hoodoo

I get some pleasure from finding a relentlessly peaceful use for a combative looking knife.
JKM
 
Which in your experience are the most useful heat packs? I have some that I bought overseas which you are meant to stick to the inside of your clothes but they flap about a bit inevitably. Also they are not all that long-lived - couple of hours at best.

Anybody got a brand name and an online source to recommend? Thanks in advance.

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" ... for I am a bear of very little brain and long words give me trouble."
 
The one's I have now are called "Heat Factory" and can be found at
http://www.heatfactory.com/

There is also a product called "MyCoal" by a company called "Graber." These were also very good, but I can not find the right "Graber" on the Internet.

The work better when they are fresh. There is an expiration date on them, usually a few years out from when you purchase. As they age, they get less reliable I've noticed..

Sportsman's guide (www.sportsmansguide.com I'm pretty sure) carries them.
 
I once tried a vapor barrier inside a sleeping bag, but found it pretty sticky/clammy. A friend with more Alpine experience told me that the key to vapor barrier systems is to use them in very cold weather. He found that if it is only moderately cool, he starts to sweat and lose the benefits of the vapor barrier.

Another important thing to remember is to place most insulating materials outside of the vapor barrier. One particularly stubborn and ornery old friend of mine once put a mylar vapor barrier OVER his down bag, despite advice to the contrary. It trapped body moisture in the down, thereby decreasing its insulating value. The temperature dropped to about 11 degrees and he was shivering much of the night. He was so stubborn that he refused to get up and walk 30 feet to the vehicle, where I had left a spare sleeping bag for him!

In any event, I don't have any personal experience with the vapor barrier clothing and would be very interested to hear from anyone who has.

Thanks for raising the subject,

DPD
 
I did puzzle over this idea for a while until I realized it would have to be only for cold enough environment where you were not likely to sweat much even under some exertion. The bottom line seems to be that if you sweat any more than is balanced by evaporation through your neck and cuff areas, you would get really uncomfortable really fast.

I would sweat even in dead winter with shade temps well below freezing when, for example, I was cross country skiing. Even in camp, I was always doing something to keep my body temp. up. But I always had trouble at night when I slept (or tried to sleep) due to insufficient insulation. There are also times when you get unexpectedly stuck at camp on particularly dreary and cold days when it seems you just can't get warm. In those situations it sounds like the vapor barrier system would be worth having to fall back on given that you had plenty of insulation to throw around it already. If I ever go winter camping again again, I'd probably carry a vapor barrier shirt at least to give what sounds like good technology a try.

The site ( http://www.warmlite.com/ ) does not say much about how much the shirt weighs, or how small a space it can be crunched down into for packing.

Always nice to know what's out there...

Thanks

 
Something about that warmlite site rang a bell
wink.gif
so I dug out my old copy of the last whole earth catalog (1972) and sure enough, there was a warmlite tent with a nekkid woman sittin' inside. Some things never change.
smile.gif


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Hoodoo

I get some pleasure from finding a relentlessly peaceful use for a combative looking knife.
JKM
 
Cabelas has a brand called jon-e hand warmers that a lot of people swear by, although I've never used one yet.
 
Swede, I've been using JON-E handwarmers all my life and they are real heaters. They take lighter fluid. When it's REALLY cold, fire one of these babies up and you won't be cold again. A small one will keep you warm, a large one will make you feel like you are sitting in front of a fireplace. I've been sitting out on the ice when the windchill is absolutely blisteringly cold and just fishing away when most guys are packing up. And the secret is that I had a JON-E sitting in my vest pocket under my down parka. That and my mickey mouse boots.
smile.gif


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Hoodoo

I get some pleasure from finding a relentlessly peaceful use for a combative looking knife.
JKM

[This message has been edited by Hoodoo (edited 05-13-2001).]
 
I didn't realize that Warmlite was still around until I saw this post. I used one of their tents from the mid-1970s until about five years ago. It finally gave out due to sun rot. Their products were very innovative when they were first introduced and are still amoungst the most light weight on the market.

In checking out their website quickly the photographs are the same ones that I remember from their catalog from around 1975. I'll have to spend some more time viewing their site to see if the products have evolved since then.

As far as the vapor barrier approach for outdoor clothing goes, my limited experience is that for me it is effective in very cold weather but otherwise (at least for heavy sweaters like me) it is not a good alternative. If anyone else out there has every worn military bunny boots they also work on the vapor barrier principle and are the warmest boots I have worn in cold weather (I believe that they were developed during the Korean War).

Vapor barrier clothing reminds me of the waterproof suits wrestlers used to (or perhaps still do?) wear to drop weight just before a match. -Alan
 
Alan_B,
I believe the bunny boots you refer to are the same as the Mickey Mouse boots I refer to above and YES, they are THE warmest boot I've ever worn. My feet have never gotten cold on the ice with these on. A few months ago I was in Wisconsin ice fishing and we had to leave the ice because the friend I was fishing with was freezing his toes off. It was about 0 degrees F out and a stiff wind. When we got back to the truck, I slipped off one of the boots and told my friend to slip his hand inside. They were as warm as toast. My feet were warm and I had only one pair of wool socks on. There are now some boots on the market that are supposed to be as warm but I've never tried them so I can't really say. But if there was one boot I absolutely could not do without, it's those white bunny/mickey mouse boots. They are awesome. I've tried cheaper knockoffs that weren't bad but the originals are still the best. IMO, of course.
smile.gif


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Hoodoo

I get some pleasure from finding a relentlessly peaceful use for a combative looking knife.
JKM
 
HooDoo,

Yep bunny boots=Mickey Mouse boots. I'm a little sleep deprived so I didn't notice your earlier mention. Nothing warmer!!
 
Thanks for all the contributions. I see that the Warmlite products are relatively familiar, if not commonly used. I wonder if anyone has any other thoughts on the Buffalo Teclites that were mentioned on the Ultralight Backpacking site.

I found them on sale at a UK website The Country Shop: see

www.theinternetpages.co.uk/england/norw/campeq1/tcs1.htm,

where there are also descriptions of the Buffalo products. All thoughts and input would be welcome!



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" ... for I am a bear of very little brain and long words give me trouble."
 
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