How To Hirschfänger date?

[robinpeck]

Does anyone have an idea how to establish an approximate date for an old Hirschfanger?

 

[horseclover]

19th-20th century

The etch work on the blade is late. The grind is 'in the style of' hunting swords of the 18th century. Well made but missing a quillon and the counterguard/shell. My estimate would be between the two big wars, the Weimar period.

 

[robinpeck]

Thank you for your reply.

I have another with the same date question. (I am well aware that the clamshells are missing and the quillons are broken off.)

Also, does the French text necessarily mean that they are not German?

 

[horseclover]

I would put that one mid--> 18th century. Again quite broken.

A freebie is the old Bashford Dean catalogue

Catalogue of European Court Swords and Hunting Swords Including the De Dino, Riggs, and Reubell Collections - The Metropolitan Museum of Art

The Met presents over 5,000 years of art from around the world for everyone to experience and enjoy.

www.metmuseum.org

Plates in the back but a good flash card deck for the older swords. Your first is 'in the style of' the older trends.

Maybe not as interesting but a great book for any blade bookshelf is Blackmore's 'Hunting Weapons' The catalogue above should get you set for a start.

Cheers
GC.

 

[robinpeck]

I would put that one mid--> 18th century. Again quite broken.

A freebie is the old Bashford Dean catalogue

Catalogue of European Court Swords and Hunting Swords Including the De Dino, Riggs, and Reubell Collections - The Metropolitan Museum of Art

The Met presents over 5,000 years of art from around the world for everyone to experience and enjoy.

www.metmuseum.org

Plates in the back but a good flash card deck for the older swords. Your first is 'in the style of' the older trends.

Maybe not as interesting but a great book for any blade bookshelf is Blackmore's 'Hunting Weapons' The catalogue above should get you set for a start.

Cheers
GC.

Thank you for the advice. (I have owned the "Hunting Weapons" book for decades.) So the 2nd knife is very much older than the first? Is the "Der Hirschfanger" book by Gerhardt Seifert worth owning? I can't read German.

 

[horseclover]

Thank you for the advice. (I have owned the "Hunting Weapons" book for decades.) So the 2nd knife is very much older than the first? Is the "Der Hirschfanger" book by Gerhardt Seifert worth owning? I can't read German.

I'm not familiar with the German book but a phone can translate from a photo now.

Is there anything etched on the spine of the blade?

 

[robinpeck]

Both knives have spine etching. I will try to get photos of those here soon.

(A phone can translate?....I guess I should think about getting a phone.)

 

[robinpeck]

 

[horseclover]

You have to keep in mind that 19th and 20th century German Hirshfangers are not French and English hunting swords of the 17th&18th century. Germany..

 

[robinpeck]

You have to keep in mind that 19th and 20th century German Hirshfangers are not French and English hunting swords of the 17th&18th century. Germany..

I don't understand what you mean.

 

[horseclover]

19th century German hirschfagers were copies/renditions of earlier swords. Hence starting with posting the Bashford Dean pages.

 

[The Zieg]

19th century German hirschfagers were copies/renditions of earlier swords. Hence starting with posting the Bashford Dean pages.

My recollection from German relatives is that the later swords are badges of the office of hunt master (which is a govt license) and not such practical tools.

 

[robinpeck]

Is there anything etched on the spine of the blade?

Spine photos. The one with the foliage is the knife with the stag handle.

 

[horseclover]

Spine photos. The one with the foliage is the knife with the stag handle.

Thank you.

I still have to go with my first impression for both.

Neat remains

 

[Stacy E. Apelt - Bladesmith]

I deleted your duplicate thread.

My guess is1930's. Either souvenir or decorative for hunting trachen. Ones like yours were not really used to dispatch a deer or boar. I have seen a lot of other daggers from that era with various shapes and sizes with identical handles.

I also have seen swords and daggers made in India/Pakistan that look old, but the surfaces and etching quality say otherwise. Not saying that is what you have, but it bears consideration. What was the source of your purchase and what info/provenance was offered?

I would be interested in what the other site you posted this dagger on has to say.

 

[robinpeck]

I also have seen swords and daggers made in India/Pakistan that look old, but the surfaces and etching quality say otherwise. Not saying that is what you have, but it bears consideration. What was the source of your purchase and what info/provenance was offered?

The two knives were formerly the property of a fellow named Joe Beisser of Yukon Territory, Canada, where he enjoyed hunting bears. He was an unrepentent Nazi who had fought in the German Army against American troops. He claimed that his father had a large weapons collection that was all stolen from their home by American soldiers after the war. Only a few items remained, these two knives among them. An image of a newspaper story about Joe.

 

[Stacy E. Apelt - Bladesmith]

Neat story. Still, they could well be 1920-1930.

 

[robinpeck]

I note that he admitted to fighting in Western Europe. All former WWII German soldiers of my acquaintance claimed to have fought on the Russian front.

Yes, the knives could still be from the interwar period. But they aren't from Pakistan.

 

[horseclover]

One of them is 18th century