Hitchcock "Hole in One" side folder by CRKT

T

themandylion

Joined
Nov 21, 2010
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109
Hello all!

I know that one does not ask for "legal advice" for free online, so I don't intend for my questions to be that. However, if anyone would like to offer opinions on what you would do for yourself, please do! ;)

I am intrigued by the CRKT "Hole in One" side folding knife, and would like to order one. I am concerned, however, about the goofy California knife laws, and how this model fits into them.

1) do any Californians currently own a "Hole in One"? Has anyone hassled you for it?

2) if you live in California, have you considered buying one?

3) do you know of any relevant information that you might point me to regarding the legality of the "Hole in One"? (I have reviewed PC 653K & 12020, etc., but am curious about any documented or even anecdotal information about "on the street" consideration of this model by cops, etc., since it folds sideways instead of top down)

Thank you advance, and Happy Thanksgiving!




PS: please forgive me if you feel I posted this in the wrong forum, but I felt this was the best for my questions, even better than "Knife Laws," since this is specific to this model - I did look through the entire site before posting :) )
 
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it is a big non issue, unless you carry it blade open and concealed, or onto a achool ground. Otherwise, under state law, it is legal (IMO).
 
dano said:
it is a big non issue, unless you carry it blade open and concealed, or onto a achool ground. Otherwise, under state law, it is legal (IMO).
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That's not at all clear.

Would you trust that Kamala Harris would agree with you? I sure wouldn't.
 
What a total cop-out on the part of your A.G.'s office! I'll bet they would be willing to make a determination if they decide to prosecute you for carrying it!
 
The lever is attached directly to the blade, it locks closed, and the spring tension of the handle must be overcome to open with no bias to opening. I personally don't see anything that suggests switchblade or gravity knife, particularly after US Customs revised their guidelines.

At first I thought that you had concerns about it being classified as a knuckleduster.
 
I love how the Department of Justice can't explain a law. That would give me great pride and confidence in my Department of Justice. :rolleyes:

Just don't do anything stupid with it and you should be okay.
 
What is their rendition of a snap blade. What is a snap blade in general? A/O?
 
From what I understand, I believe generally (and specifically in California) attorney generals (and their offices) do not give legal advice or answer legal questions from private individuals or companies. For those kind of questions, there are lawyers, legal scholars, and ultimately judges. The AG office represents the state government and can advise government branches or individuals like the legislature, etc. In short, I believe you're asking the wrong people.
 
hardheart said:
The lever is attached directly to the blade, it locks closed, and the spring tension of the handle must be overcome to open with no bias to opening. I personally don't see anything that suggests switchblade or gravity knife, particularly after US Customs revised their guidelines.

At first I thought that you had concerns about it being classified as a knuckleduster.
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I agree, I see no reason why that wouldn't fit into California's knife regulatory laws. The fact is it is just like a regular folding knife only it opens in a slightly different way (sideways) which doesn't make a bit of difference. Plus The fact that it is locked closed makes in "safer" than most other blades out there. I ran it by my father who has been an attorney for 30+ years. He said he saw no reason that it could be classified as a gravity knife, auto knife, etc.
 
It should fall into the general classification of folding knives legal for carry in CA.

Unless you are a minor and carrying at school or prohibited by local ordinances, there doesn't seem to be anything that would make LEOs take notice of that blade.
 
elkins45 said:
What a total cop-out on the part of your A.G.'s office! I'll bet they would be willing to make a determination if they decide to prosecute you for carrying it!
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Exactly!

We have to follow their "laws" but they won't tell us exactly what is "illegal."
 
hardheart said:
The lever is attached directly to the blade, it locks closed, and the spring tension of the handle must be overcome to open with no bias to opening. I personally don't see anything that suggests switchblade or gravity knife, particularly after US Customs revised their guidelines.

At first I thought that you had concerns about it being classified as a knuckleduster.
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Your opinion (or mine) is irrelevant. The legal system's opinion is.

"Switchblade knife" does not include a knife that opens with one hand utilizing thumb pressure applied solely to the blade of the knife or a thumb stud attached to the blade, provided that the knife has a detent or other mechanism that provides resistance that must be overcome in opening the blade, or that biases the blade back toward its closed position.

No specific, non-vague definition offered for that.
 
hoppingzombie said:
From what I understand, I believe generally (and specifically in California) attorney generals (and their offices) do not give legal advice or answer legal questions from private individuals or companies. For those kind of questions, there are lawyers, legal scholars, and ultimately judges. The AG office represents the state government and can advise government branches or individuals like the legislature, etc. In short, I believe you're asking the wrong people.
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So, if I ask a lawyer or "legal scholar," that will mean something to the hard-nosed "the law is the law" DA or judge if I'm on trial? Hardly!

I did NOT ask for "legal advice," such as "should I carry this?" I asked if they considered the tool legal or not.

This situation is a perfect example of what is wrong with the government: "obey, but we won't tell you how to obey - you'll have to risk it and rely on our mercy."
 
themandylion said:
Exactly!

We have to follow their "laws" but they won't tell us exactly what is "illegal."
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""Did you really think we want those laws observed?" said Dr. Ferris. "We want them to be broken. You'd better get it straight that it's not a bunch of boy scouts you're up against... We're after power and we mean it... There's no way to rule innocent men.

The only power any government has is the power to crack down on criminals. Well, when there aren't enough criminals one makes them. One declares so many things to be a crime that it becomes impossible for men to live without breaking laws. Who wants a nation of law-abiding citizens? What's there in that for anyone? But just pass the kind of laws that can neither be observed nor enforced or objectively interpreted – and you create a nation of law-breakers – and then you cash in on guilt.

Now that's the system, Mr. Reardon, that's the game, and once you understand it, you'll be much easier to deal with.""
 
As long as the 'Hole-In-One' has a detent ("Bias toward closure") the you'll be fine. If you can't flip it open with just simple wrist motion, and if you're stopped and asked about it, and you can give a legitimate reason (or reasons) for having it, it shouldn't be a problem. (Just don't carry it into a courthouse or something.)

The state DOJ and/or the state AG's office here won't tell you squat, because every jurisdiction within the state has different laws. The biggest issue is size: in California, a 3" blade or under is legal to carry statewide, and longer is okay if you have a legit reason (ie: landscaper carrying a big hawkbill for pruning, etc.) The blade on the 'Hole-In-One' is only 2.5", so it should be okay in that regard.

Whenever I have a question about a knife I want to carry, I ask the local PD here. Every one I've met are good people, and generally very helpful, but they'll roll their eyes when you ask about state regulations, especially with Kamala Harris in office now. I can carry anything here except a switchblade, and a couple of cops here carry assisted-openers.

~Chris

PS - at the risk of getting dinged for political discussion, I'll go ahead and say this: with Kamala Harris becoming state AG, there is a lot of scurrying around to the local libraries, etc., by people (me included) to make sure we're familiar with the law, both in firearm and knife ownership. The problem with KH is that she steadfastly refuses to uphold the law is it's written on the books. She's pretty confused as to what she should be doing. Hopefully she won't be around long enough to influence any policies in the long term.
 
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Dekz said:
""Did you really think we want those laws observed?" said Dr. Ferris. "We want them to be broken. You'd better get it straight that it's not a bunch of boy scouts you're up against... We're after power and we mean it... There's no way to rule innocent men.

The only power any government has is the power to crack down on criminals. Well, when there aren't enough criminals one makes them. One declares so many things to be a crime that it becomes impossible for men to live without breaking laws. Who wants a nation of law-abiding citizens? What's there in that for anyone? But just pass the kind of laws that can neither be observed nor enforced or objectively interpreted – and you create a nation of law-breakers – and then you cash in on guilt.

Now that's the system, Mr. Reardon, that's the game, and once you understand it, you'll be much easier to deal with.""
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Clear thinking is above! ^^^
 
orca8589 said:
As long as the 'Hole-In-One' has a detent ("Bias toward closure") the you'll be fine. If you can't flip it open with just simple wrist motion, and if you're stopped and asked about it, and you can give a legitimate reason (or reasons) for having it, it shouldn't be a problem. (Just don't carry it into a courthouse or something.)
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I hope so! :(

I'm in Mendocino County, so sanity prevails, usually, up here.

I'm no one that the cops will finger as a thug, so I probably will be OK. But the fact I am the quintessential "law abiding" person is why I'm "nit-picking" on these knife statutes. :cool: Thugs don't care even if the statute is plain & simple; it doesn't matter to them. Only the "good" people obey the law; those who impose the laws usually don't "get" that.


orca8589 said:
The state DOJ and/or the state AG's office here won't tell you squat, because every jurisdiction within the state has different laws.
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Constitutionally, the Attorney General is the highest law enforcement officer in the state, and DAs must follow the direction of the AG's office. I realize that each DA has different interpretations of the same statutes, which is why I went to the AG (we just had a DA change here). I know that the AG's office has issued letters proclaiming what firearms statutes mean from time to time, which is why I sought out the same on this blade.


orca8589 said:
or under is legal to carry statewide, and longer is okay if you have a legit reason (ie: landscaper carrying a big hawkbill for pruning, etc.) The blade on the 'Hole-In-One' is only 2.5", so it should be okay in that regard.

Whenever I have a question about a knife I want to carry, I ask the local PD here. Every one I've met are good people, and generally very helpful, but they'll roll their eyes when you ask about state regulations, especially with Kamala Harris in office now. I can carry anything here except a switchblade, and a couple of cops here carry assisted-openers.
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There are good cops and bad cops. I've sought out the local PD's opinions before, but it doesn't actually mean squat when it comes down to the field enforcement. Most of our cops & deputies would say, "hey, that's a cool knife," while a few would say, "put your hands behind your back."

As for carrying assisted openers, Sacramento classes cops as "special" people, so they get to do things that us common peons cannot (so much for "equal protection of the laws").


orca8589 said:
PS - at the risk of getting dinged for political discussion, I'll go ahead and say this: with Kamala Harris becoming state AG, there is a lot of scurrying around to the local libraries, etc., by people (me included) to make sure we're familiar with the law, both in firearm and knife ownership. The problem with KH is that she steadfastly refuses to uphold the law is it's written on the books. She's pretty confused as to what she should be doing. Hopefully she won't be around long enough to influence any policies in the long term.
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I respectfully disagree that she is "pretty confused." She knows exactly what she's doing. She wants to make 2+2=5, that's what.
 
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