Hollow or flat grind?

H

Hoodoo

Joined
Aug 18, 1999
Messages
2,355
A kind of dogma among old-timey woodsmen is that a hunting knife should be flat--not hollow--ground. Yet the Spydie Wegner was designed for hunting and it is hollow ground. And I doubt that there is a single knife around that has cleaned more big game than the hollow ground Buck 110. Whaddya think?

Please insert your comments, opinions, protestations, etc., below.

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Hoodoo

The low, hoarse purr of the whirling stone—the light-press’d blade,
Diffusing, dropping, sideways-darting, in tiny showers of gold,
Sparkles from the wheel.

Walt Whitman
 
Being old-timey myself and a bit of a woodsman as well, I think old timey woodsmen are full of crap.
smile.gif


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Jerry Hossom
www.hossom.com
 
Originally posted by GaKnife:
Being old-timey myself and a bit of a woodsman as well, I think old timey woodsmen are full of crap.
smile.gif

Click to expand...

When I said old timey woodsmen here's kinda what I had in mind.
http://www.bladeforums.com/ubb/Forum32/HTML/001351.html

When I posted this the first time, no one picked up on the hollow grind vs flat grind thingy.



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Hoodoo

The low, hoarse purr of the whirling stone—the light-press’d blade,
Diffusing, dropping, sideways-darting, in tiny showers of gold,
Sparkles from the wheel.

Walt Whitman
 
i may be wrong on some of this, but i'll give it a try.

a flat ground blade increases in thickness at a fixed rate, whereas a hollow ground blade is on a curve. what this means is that the hollow ground blade is thinner just behind the edge, but increases rather quickly farther back. if you are just using the edge for cutting, a hollow ground blade has the advantage in cutting ease since there is little of the entire blade going through the material. this is the case in skinning a deer or other animal, at least the way i learned. If you are cutting cardboard or something similar where the entire width of the blade is going through, a flat grind would have the advantage in cutting ease. the hollow grind will drag where the grind thickens radically at the top of the grind. the flat grind thickens at a fixed rate and therefore, there are no edges of the grind to drag on, just the smooth grind.

on a folding knife or a smaller fixed blade, i seriously doubt it makes much of a difference. the edge thickness and sharpness would make more of a difference in general utility or skinning an animal.
 
Hoodoo, I'm inclined to think the same after reading the link. You need to remember that what was offered there was an opinion based on that man's personal experience. Though, I get the impression that what he's saying was some hearsay and not all experience. The part about hollow-ground blades being weak is pure nonsense. My blades get a lot of use, and cut bone all the time. Most of my hunters will dress and skin 4-5 deer per year without sharpening, and that's by some guys who also use them to split the breastbone.

A well made hollow ground blade will, IMO, outperform a flat ground blade in any soft material and most hard materials up to the height of the grind. At the top of the grind, the hollow ground blade will stall. Unless he's chopping wood, which is not where a hollow ground blade will not perform well, I stand by my original assessment of old-timey woodsmen.

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Jerry Hossom
www.hossom.com
 
Sebenzas are my favorite folders. (hollow ground) Busses are my favorite fixed blades. (flat ground) Go figure. Though for slicing the hollow ground folder is better. I perfer the flat for my fixed blades. Jeff
 
As usuall I agree with Jerry 100%!! PLUS there is a large range of what one would call hollow ground. If a blade is ground on a large contact wheel, you would need a dial indicator to measure the amount of hollow it has in thousanths of an inch!!
To me, the last thing I would want to use for field dressing a dear is a liner lock folder!! Second to the last thing is a Buck 110! They are HEAVY, have NO grip and no guard or indexing feel...... and, you would need a power washer to get the nasties out of either one when you were done
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Why do these Flat Grind - Hollow Grind threads get me so fired up???
Neil


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Blackwood Knives
More knives in stock! New Talonite models soon!!
http://www.geocities.com/Eureka/Meeting/5520/index.html
 
Originally posted by Dr.Lathe:
To me, the last thing I would want to use for field dressing a dear is a liner lock folder!! Second to the last thing is a Buck 110! They are HEAVY, have NO grip and no guard or indexing feel...... and, you would need a power washer to get the nasties out of either one when you were done
mad.gif

Why do these Flat Grind - Hollow Grind threads get me so fired up???
Neil
Click to expand...

I agree. Who would want to use a folder when a fixed would be better. Nevertheless, the Buck 110 has been the knife of choice for a whole bunch of hunters for an awfully long time.

It kinda reminds me of a hunting rifle debate. There are all kinds of sexy rifles out there that gun aficionados love to take deer hunting but the old, slow, lumbering 30-30 is a legendary hunting rifle and is still popular in the field. I use mine for varmint hunting.
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So far, no one has really stated clearly why hollow ground might be better for hunting. I recall one argument being that meat is less likely to stick to the blade. Is that true? Aren't most butcher knives flat ground? Should they be hollow ground?

I don't really buy into Herter's argument about hollow grinding weakening the edge. I've never seen this in any of my hollow ground knives. I wonder where he came up with this? Seems like you would have to do some extreme cutting for a difference to be noticed.

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Hoodoo

The low, hoarse purr of the whirling stone—the light-press’d blade,
Diffusing, dropping, sideways-darting, in tiny showers of gold,
Sparkles from the wheel.

Walt Whitman
 
A hollow ground blade is better for hunting because it is sharper and more accute at the edge. Maybe the confusion is when people think a hunting knife is primarily used like a butcher knife--to cut thick slabs of meat. In reality most of the use of a hunting knife is to cut hide, cut through the thin abdominal wall, cut through connecting tissues, and cut through the diaphragm. An awful lot of the work is to do precise and delicate cutting of membranes and thin tissues. A hunting knife has more scalpel jobs to do than butcher knife tasks or cleaver tasks.

Many users only field dress their game using their hunting knife, then take it to a processing shop for butchering and cold storage. If they do their own butchering it is likely to use a butchering kit that has big boning and butchering knives.

A modest sized hollow ground blade works well for hunting, particularly if it is very sharp. A big advantage of a hollow ground blade is that you don't have to remove much material when you sharpen it. I would bet that a much larger percentage of hollow ground blades are kept sharp. A flat ground blade is good if it is thin enough. The old timers' hunting knives were 1/8" thick or thinner.
 
OK, I'm calmer now. One reason production knives are flat ground is that it is far more easily automatible than hollow grinding, and therefore cheaper. As for butcher blades, what does a butcher use to cut bone? A cleaver. In the field, you usually only use one knife. A hollow ground blade gives you strength, a fine edge, and lower weight per blade inch than a flat ground blade. Still, a flat ground blade is a fine hunting blade, and I have no argument with them.

The issue here was the attack by Herter on hollow ground blades. That was complete nonsense or more likely what he was selling at the time. You have to watch out for old-timey woodsmen, they can be deceitful old f*rts. I know, being one myself.

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Jerry Hossom
www.hossom.com
 
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