Home HVAC system replacement advice and wisdom?

[Sid Post]

As the title says, it's time to become more educated on Air Conditioners and Furnaces. I need advice on a replacing the HVAC system in a ~3200 square foot home in central Oklahoma. Lennox seems to be the prevailing brand widely available with the middle range Elite series the leading contender. Since nothing is in stock, we could order a Trane or American Standard system if there was a compelling reason.

Prices and feature are all over the place but, based on the expected ownership life, cost of energy and, the owner I think we need to stay in the mid-range lines for lower energy costs and better performance without getting into the high end features of the premium systems since the elderly owner won't know how to use them - think hot => more a/c or cold => more heat. The system needs to be very simple and very easy to use with no fancy electronic thermostats.

We are looking at 4~5 ton A/C units with natural gas furnaces that will heat to the high-80's (88F is not uncommon when it is 0 or low teens outside) in Oklahoma winters with stiff North winds and cool in the Summers into the low 60's when it is in the high 100's or hotter.

 

[Bufford]

Look for a gas furnace efficiency rating of 94% or better, most furnaces on the market will reach this value. I would go for Lennox if that is the common brand in your area, that way service and parts will be readily available. Get a good decent central airconditioner, given the climate serious attention should be paid here. Make sure you get the airconditioner sized properly, a unit too large will produce damp clammy air, and an undersized unit doesn't cut it on hot days.

Install a standard thermostat or one where the timer features can be turned off. Look for a large sized stat with bigger buttons and display.

 

[SSonnentag]

I'll list my random thoughts and findings:

Heat pumps are good for cooling, but inefficient for heating.
Gas heating is probably the most cost effective.
Here in the extremely hot desert of Arizona, I have found Trane to be the most durable for cooling.
The Nest or similar smart thermostats are worth the money. They'll save you upwards of $100 per year from my testing.
Go with the smallest heat pump you think you can get away with. The most efficient heat pump would be one that kept your home comfortable without ever having to shut off. This is not possible due to the heating and cooling of the outdoor temperature, but you get my point.
In my opinion, multi-stage heat pumps are a waste of money. They're good for quickly cooling or heating your home if you've been away for awhile, but they are basically oversized pumps, which means you're using more power than you need to in order to keep your home comfortable.
If only part of the house needs to be comfortable for significant portions of the day, look into multiple smaller units rather than a single large one. Keeping one zone comfortable rather than the entire house will be less costly.

 

[jeremy1517]

My father owns a heating/AC company in Kansas. He is an American Standard dealer and in my opinion it is the best quality equipment made. Consumer reports has had them rated as the number one brand in furnace and AC in terms of least amount or repairs and liability. The equipment is service friendly and parts are readily accessible. Here in Wichita, Lennox parts are expensive and usually have to be ordered.

There are a couple variables you should consider:

First, how long do you plan on staying in your house? High efficiency systems take years to pay off as far as savings in electric/gas bills. If you won't be there long, don't spend the extra money.

Secondly, prob the most important question to ask people who are selling the equipment is what refrigerant will be used. The government deemed R22 as harmful to the environment. Therefore R22 systems and refrigerant has been greatly restricted. Everything is switching to R410a. Do not buy a R22 system. Due to restrictions, our cost for R22 has tripled since last summer. Manufacturers cannot produce or ship systems that have R22 in them.

Just a few things to consider.


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[Sid Post]

We are looking at 10 to 15 years in the house or more so, high efficiency is worth it. There are no plans to sell or flip the house at the present time.

Modern refridgerant is a REQUIREMENT. We just spent $500 on R22 a week ago. Next summer would probably be another $500 or more. The present system has been in use since the early 80's so, it's due for a replacement though I question the furnance part. With package deals, deleting the furnance doesn't really save enough to be a significant factor. Add tax incentives and lower energy costs and it is even harder to say no.

Pricing on 13 to 25 SEER A/C units is TBD.

 

[jeremy1517]

I would replace the system. You won't get the efficiency you want putting a high efficiency coil and condenser on the old furnace. Besides, it's 20+ yrs old. When you start going into the 15+ seer systems, you are going into the realm of variable speed motors and other expensive goodies. Great stuff, but expensive. Sky is the limit on what you can get. Be prepared to get bids for 3-5000 for 13 seer systems. Depending on what you want it can get really expensive past that.

One thing about American standard is they use aluminum fin coils. You won't experience the potential leaks from chemicals and corrosion you see in copper coils. Also, American Standard uses micro fin coils in the condenser. They are very efficient, easy to clean. Most American Standard condensers has panels that can easily be taken off to be cleaned. I am biased towards American Standard. They work great and are engineered to be serviceable. If you've ever worked on a furnace or condenser you will know what I mean.

My advice..... You will truly get what you pay for. Get bids for different brands and research!!! Use an established, reputable company. There are a ton of fly by night places that won't be there when you need them. Also, compare warranties. Some of the brands have great warranties!!! Check to see if there are any tax incentives in OK for buying certain efficiency units.

Stay away from Goodman systems!!!!!! They have a 60% failure rate in the first year, seriously!!!!

 

[Sid Post]

I would replace the system. You won't get the efficiency you want putting a high efficiency coil and condenser on the old furnace. Besides, it's 20+ yrs old. When you start going into the 15+ seer systems, you are going into the realm of variable speed motors and other expensive goodies. Great stuff, but expensive. Sky is the limit on what you can get. Be prepared to get bids for 3-5000 for 13 seer systems. Depending on what you want it can get really expensive past that.

In rural Oklahoma, forget fly-by night, here today gone tomorrow - you're glad anyone is around with any experience to do basic house maintenance - plumbing, electrical, roofing, etc.

The mid-range Lennox Elite system suggested by the repairman with the Freon was quoted at $7700 installed and it has the variable speed motor. It did seem like a reasonable quote but, a big purchase like this isn't a good impulse buy either. American Standard is a name I have seen mentioned favorably a lot but, I really didn't know why over Trane or Lennox.

Stay away from Goodman systems!!!!!! They have a 60% failure rate in the first year, seriously!!!!

Thanks! That's part of the reason I posted in the first place.

 

[Unk]

Find and listen to a GOOD dealer..get references from satisfied local customers.. and call them.

March 2010 replaced our 18 year old Carrier HVAC with a new high efficiency Carrier [15.75SEER,13 EER] for $5604, net of $150 OEM rebate.A $1500 Fed Tax Credit applied - our net net was $4104. Sold and installed by the same guys that did the OEM. Our long relationship with them and Carrier products over the years made it a no-brainer for us.

Our FL home is in a transitional zone between subtropical to tropical which includes periods of high humidity. My retiree's uniform is shorts, t-shirt and athletic shoes except for worship services, funerals and some weddings [ last was a beach wedding with shoes optional].

Best.