Home made anti-scale solution

W

Wapiti

Joined
Sep 25, 1999
Messages
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I am trying to mix up a quick anti-scale coating for heat treating.

I have read a few posts here buy several folks that suggest I should be able to mix up some hi-temp furnace cement with denatured alcohol and coat my cleaned blades with it to decrease scale.

The mixing is perplexing me right now.

I am using some Imperial cement rated for 2700F from Home Cheapo:
http://www.imperialgroup.ca/fireplace_maintenanceproducts.cfm?c=380

I measured out 10oz by weight and placed in a jar and added 2/3C of Alcohol and left it overnight. This morning it looks and sounds like a bunch of rocks in alcohol. When I shake it up, some of the cement creates a grey watery solution, which settles out in about 5 minutes to clear alcohol on top and grey sand on the bottom of the jar. I tried crushing the cement into smaller pieces with a mortar and pestle, but didn’t improve the situation much

It just doesn’t seem to be seem to be mixing or creating the solution I have read about.

I will note that when I opened the tub it was very hard on the top 1 inch, so I just pried the hard stuff out and used it.

Is that the problem? Was the cement was already cured or something because air leaked into the container? Is there any way to reclaim this hardened cement, or do I just need to buy a new tub.

If it can’t be reclaimed, how would you suggest I store cement in the future? In the freezer…
I like having it around as I hope to experiment with clay coating to get a hamon one of these days, but if it is going to dry out in a few months on the shelf, I will just have to buy it right before I need it.

Any other tips on this stuff would be greatly appreciated.

I tried no scale coating on my first anneal a month ago (first time running the new Evenheat-love the machine but still learning!), and was not happy, so want to address this.

Getting ready to heat treat a few 1095 blades and some 15n20 machetes/choppers.

I think I might just pick up some Turco or whatever for the future. I love making my own stuff, but sometimes it is more work than the savings, or the fun.

Thanks again,
Brome
 
ATP-641 anti-scale is $15.00 per pint. It is about as thick as latex paint and will do many blades. Why waste you time and effort on homemade?
 
If you want a simple and efficient coating, use satanite and water. Mix a small amount about as thick as cream, and apply to the blade. Hang the blade from the tang to let the excess run off and the blade to fully dry.

You can't really mix and store cement. The mix you made before may not have worked because not everything that mixes with water is soluble in alcohol.
 
You were right, Stacy (no surprise).
After work I tried it with water and it does seem to be mixing much better.
I am going to give it day or so and I should be back in business.

Thanks again,
Brome
 
I have a stupid question here as I've never used anything and just dealt with the aftermath after HT...

Will the heat treat temps or quench be affected in any way using anti-scale??
 
Depends a lot on what steel, and how you HT it. If it is a type that requires more than a couple or so minutes in soak, it is helpful in most cases to prevent carbon loss and scale. I use 01, and it gets soaked at 1475° for up to 30 minutes in some cases. Using ATP-641 anti-scale, I can take my edge to to .010/.015, and the finish to about 95% done, and have no scale or decarb after HT. It makes clean up and finishing much easier for me.
 
I neglected to answer your question on the heat. No, it has no effect on heat or quench. Most of it will flake off in the quench. the rest you can get off with a coarse rag or pick it off with your finger nails, or it will come off with water. I coat after doing a stress relief and it speads and coats like paint. It does not like mirror polished metal. I coat and let dry overnight, then recoat the edge area, dry with a hair dryer, then put it in the oven for the main HT proceedure. It is rated for up to 2200°, but in HTing A-2 at 1775°, I found it will allow some decarb and light scaleing. Works super for 01 though.
 
I find that an anti-scale coating only works for carbon steels that HT below 1600F. Higher temp steels should be wrapped in HT foil.
 
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