Home water filtration system?

annr

annr

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Nov 15, 2006
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I'm in the market for a system or device to filter the tap water in my house. My main focus is eliminating or reducing fluoride— the city adds fluoride—for drinking, cooking, washing the face, and brushing the teeth.

Please share your advice and experience pro/con on this topic! Thanks!
 
I'm a plumber and just today changed the filters on an r.o. system. I'm pretty sure a reverse osmosis system will eliminate the fluoride in the water.

Try to put it in a place that you can actually get at! The one I did today was stuffed in the closet.

I'm curious if one of the brita tap filters that screw on might do the trick?

An r.o. system is expensive and takes up a lot of room. Especially when you add an expansion tank. Even with an expansion tank the volume is still pretty low.

You could always call your local water guys. They would hook you real quick. Just be careful they don't up sell you.
They might recommend more than you need.
 
marcus52AR said:
I'm a plumber and just today changed the filters on an r.o. system. I'm pretty sure a reverse osmosis system will eliminate the fluoride in the water.

Try to put it in a place that you can actually get at! The one I did today was stuffed in the closet.

I'm curious if one of the brita tap filters that screw on might do the trick?

An r.o. system is expensive and takes up a lot of room. Especially when you add an expansion tank. Even with an expansion tank the volume is still pretty low.

You could always call your local water guys. They would hook you real quick. Just be careful they don't up sell you.
They might recommend more than you need.
Click to expand...

From what I read, that type of system is at the top end of the options and more expensive partly due to needing a plumber to install! And to change the filter too!

The 3 main options I saw online were:
--APEC (5-Stage Reverse Osmosis Drinking Water Filter System). I was thinking this would go under the kitchen sink. ($200+, uninstalled)

--ClearlyFiltered Clean Water Pitcher ($75), replacement filters are about $50 each, and there seems to be a great deal of difference of opinion about the quality and longevity of the filters and how that affects the quality of the water.

--Berkey Water Filter Systems (~$300) which sits on the countertop like an old-fashioned coffee machine/dispenser found at catered events. Complaints about this device center on the problems with water leaking through joints (washers not easy to seat, etc.), problems with the filters, and that if the machine is not used daily bacteria will grow in the filters. This system has multiple filters which allow one to screen for fluoride or not depending on where one lives.

Here is something I found about r.o. which adds another layer of questions. Which one is the best for health... I think now you can see why I'm a bit puzzled about this.
With respect to the healthfulness of the water, most health experts that are up to date on current research are no longer recommending drinking RO or distilled water on a long-term basis because these methods remove all the beneficial minerals from the water making the water an acidic "hypotonic" solution. A chemist will tell you that any time a hypotonic (de-mineralized) solution comes into contact with a "hypertonic" (mineralized) solution, the minerals within the hypertonic solution will transfer out and into the hypotonic solution until equilibrium is achieved. What this means is simply that when one drinks hypotonic water, the minerals in the blood and lymphatic system, which are hypertonic, transfer into the hypotonic RO or distilled water that is consumed and the minerals are flushed out of the body upon urination.
Click to expand...
 
I think you've already hit the main points. I have and still use RO, but it does remove beneficial minerals. We have used a Berkey with the fluoride filters for the past year on a city water setup and really like it. It has the added benefit of filtering "bring your own" water...as in wherever you can scoop some up in a SHTF scenario.
 
mb> said:
I think you've already hit the main points. I have and still use RO, but it does remove beneficial minerals. We have used a Berkey with the fluoride filters for the past year on a city water setup and really like it. It has the added benefit of filtering "bring your own" water...as in wherever you can scoop some up in a SHTF scenario.
Click to expand...

Good to know. I spent a little time perusing the Amazon reviews and the Berkey people who were unhappy seemed to have problems with waking up to puddles of water--sounding like the valve/spigot or other joints didn't work. Others mentioned problems prepping the filter--requiring a lot more time than expected or indicated or some weird taste. The thing that surprised me most was the comment that if the system were not used daily, bacteria would collect/form in the filters.

Any of these pose a problem for you? Do you know which size you bought for how many people? And did you buy direct or from distributor?
 
annr said:
Good to know. I spent a little time perusing the Amazon reviews and the Berkey people who were unhappy seemed to have problems with waking up to puddles of water--sounding like the valve/spigot or other joints didn't work. Others mentioned problems prepping the filter--requiring a lot more time than expected or indicated or some weird taste. The thing that surprised me most was the comment that if the system were not used daily, bacteria would collect/form in the filters.

Any of these pose a problem for you? Do you know which size you bought for how many people? And did you buy direct or from distributor?
Click to expand...

My wife shopped the heck out these before deciding on the Berkey, so I'm not 100% on some of this. I believe the chromed spout/valve we have was an upgrade and is very good quality. I put it on "finger tight" when I first installed it. It leaked and only required snugging up some to be good to go. This is the ONLY place these can leak. Except...

People that report leaking overnight have overfilled them. I know because my wife also did this! You just have to check the reservoir/bottom half for usage before filling the top half. It will not self-regulate the filtered water level. I suppose this could be a negative to some people, but it's really easy and just part of learning how the system works.

You have to take a lot of Amazon reviews with a grain of salt on just about anything. Pilot error causes something to not work, and the person will ding it as a bad item when it was really their fault.

We have used ours intermittently at a second location. So I am sure we haven't followed proper directions for intermittent use. That said, we've never experienced bad tastes or bacteria (that I know of :eek:). It has only recently started to slow down on flow time (~1 yr), and I believe I need to scrub the main filters to get that back to normal. Have to go look that one up.

One of the tests they recommend is putting red dye in a batch of water. It's pretty cool seeing it come out clear. Don't know what micron level that takes, but it impressed my uneducated self. ;)

My wife bought direct form Berkey. They probably had some special at the time. And we have the Royal (3.25 gal size). We run 2-3 gal/day through it when in use. That size is supposed to serve 2-6 people, and is more than enough for 2 of us. We bought with others in mind.
 
I just moved into an old house, built 1870's, and the filters for the old water filter system were no longer available. I went with the APEC system from Amazon. I'm no plumber but it only took a couple hours to install, and yes it does pretty much take up the majority of the room underneath the kitchen sink.

That said, no leaks and great tasting water. I never thought I could tell a difference but after drinking filtered for a couple weeks, you can tell the difference even from bottled.

I'm not one to worry much about the quality of water and haven't done any testing, but I live in an area with old infrastructure and since the house already had one I figured it was worth it to replace it. After drinking filtered water for the last couple months, I'm glad I did.

Grizz
 
mb> said:
My wife shopped the heck out these before deciding on the Berkey, so I'm not 100% on some of this. I believe the chromed spout/valve we have was an upgrade and is very good quality. I put it on "finger tight" when I first installed it. It leaked and only required snugging up some to be good to go. This is the ONLY place these can leak. Except...

People that report leaking overnight have overfilled them. I know because my wife also did this! You just have to check the reservoir/bottom half for usage before filling the top half. It will not self-regulate the filtered water level. I suppose this could be a negative to some people, but it's really easy and just part of learning how the system works.

You have to take a lot of Amazon reviews with a grain of salt on just about anything. Pilot error causes something to not work, and the person will ding it as a bad item when it was really their fault.

We have used ours intermittently at a second location. So I am sure we haven't followed proper directions for intermittent use. That said, we've never experienced bad tastes or bacteria (that I know of :eek:). It has only recently started to slow down on flow time (~1 yr), and I believe I need to scrub the main filters to get that back to normal. Have to go look that one up.

One of the tests they recommend is putting red dye in a batch of water. It's pretty cool seeing it come out clear. Don't know what micron level that takes, but it impressed my uneducated self. ;)

My wife bought direct form Berkey. They probably had some special at the time. And we have the Royal (3.25 gal size). We run 2-3 gal/day through it when in use. That size is supposed to serve 2-6 people, and is more than enough for 2 of us. We bought with others in mind.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the great amount of detail and feedback--very helpful. I think we are going to order this one, perhaps a smaller version since I'm the only one wanting to avoid fluoride, along with the stand. Your wife must have worked very hard :):) on this because there seems to be a lot of information to weed through. As far as the bacteria goes, it seems like we take much of this on faith when it comes to water, etc., since most of us aren't in a position to repeatedly test and interpret results. Heck, even the "experts" don't agree on some of this. BTW, when I was reading the Berkey website, I think I saw was a download on cleaning the filters, maybe a video too. Good luck!
 
gdwtvb said:
I just moved into an old house, built 1870's, and the filters for the old water filter system were no longer available. I went with the APEC system from Amazon. I'm no plumber but it only took a couple hours to install, and yes it does pretty much take up the majority of the room underneath the kitchen sink.

That said, no leaks and great tasting water. I never thought I could tell a difference but after drinking filtered for a couple weeks, you can tell the difference even from bottled.

I'm not one to worry much about the quality of water and haven't done any testing, but I live in an area with old infrastructure and since the house already had one I figured it was worth it to replace it. After drinking filtered water for the last couple months, I'm glad I did.

Grizz
Click to expand...
You sound more talented than I in the installation department, and the only thing I couldn't decide is if I have less room under my sink or on my countertops for any of this.;) Glad it's working out, sounds like a good choice for your home.
 
annr,

I'll premise this by saying I haven't read any of the other posts except your first one.

I had done research on and off for the same thing. I live in the city of Chicago, so I have "Lake Michigan water". Granted, it's still processed and has flouride.
I finally decided on a Berkey. I picked one up through a place called directive 21 when they had a huge discount on the Berkey Light model. I picked it up with a set of extra black filters and with 2 sets of the flouride filters. I have had it now for a little over a month and can say I couldn't be happier except if it chilled the water too, lol.
 
Most of the ones I've installed are under the sink models for the kitchen sink faucet since that's where most of the drinking/cooking water is drawn from.
It wouldn't be economical to install a house system because ever fixture would go through the filter and you would literary be flushing money down the commode. :)
The filters should have a rating for how many gallons it's good for before changing the filter.
As far as space goes, it can be installed in the back of the cabinet and still be accessible for filter change out. One thing I'd recommend is to install a water proof liner under the sink to prevent any damage to the wood in case a leak develops. You can use something as simple as the rubber shelving material of drawers or a membrane type material that's used for shower liners.
 
I use a berkey water filtration system.


After using this for a while, I couldn't use anything else. Cost a pretty penny though, but I'm told I'm good for 3000 to 5000 gallons before needing a filter replacement.
 
HwangJino said:
I use a berkey water filtration system.


After using this for a while, I couldn't use anything else. Cost a pretty penny though, but I'm told I'm good for 3000 to 5000 gallons before needing a filter replacement.
Click to expand...

Nice! Which one is that? In terms of size? I notice that you keep it on a wooden piece of furniture. I was thinking I needed to keep it away from wood so as not to stain the wood, etc. (Nice fish!!--used to have 3 aquariums (one of them about 6 feet tall, and took care of a guy's fish who was a fresh and salt water breeder when I was a kid.)
 
Ah I don't remember the size, maybe 2nd biggest one. It will hold about 4 or 5 gallons.
I have since moved it to the window nook, it does stain the wood!

Yeah in my younger days I had a lot more tanks going, this is a medium 120 gallons.
6 foot tall tank is giant! Would of loved to see that going.
 
I bought an APEC reverse osmosis system from Amazon a couple of months ago.

I can't go back to drinking non reverse osmosis water now; it works that well.

One of the best purchases I've made in a while.
 
If you're looking at gravity water filters, check out Aquarain. It's about the same as Berkey, but made in the USA. Some say the filters are better.
 
I am a fan of the Katadyn filters but, as with all ceramic water filters you need to be aware of what amount of ceramic cystals may end up in your water as it can cause serious health problems over the long term. When you are purifying water from a stagnant pool with dead animals and feces in it versus dying of dehydration, it is an easy choice to make and over the short term this isn't an issue. However, most people use these types of filters more as a camping and hiking aid for the lifeforms that live in those clear running mountain steams that could be killed with boiling or any number of common camping tablets.

Carbon filters are wonderful for taste and will remove some minerals and chemicals, especially if you change the filters regularly. Just ask the people in Michigan who still live with lead poisoned household water! :mad:

For the vast majority of people in a residential situation, localized "kitchen" Reverse Osmosis or carbon and sediment filters are the best option (assuming you get the one that catches what you are concerned about). These are commonly available at the big box stores and change over time but, are consistently the same in general with a series of filters and a small faucet next to the soap dispenser in your kitchen sink. These are generally good for about 2 gallons a day and replenish themselves as needed since they are tied into household water. Pay attention though, and get a quality unit - not the cheapest one!

If you live in an older home, be aware that adding a household filter system (any of the major common types) will cause built up minerals in the household plumbing to break free and clog faucets, mixing valves, and every orifice that has water passing through it. While not a problem generally with large valves and passages, you can expect to have a lot of problem with washing machines, dishwashers, etc. too.

When I lived in Tucson, Arizona, I used "Water Street Station" which ran industrial water purification to get rid of the arsenic and other things present in household water. ~$15 for a 5 gallon bottle (the jug itself) and a trip once every couple of weeks (with various price points depending on how much water you buy) was the cheapest and easiest solution for me. The cost of a good filter will buy a lot of water and the 2 gallon jugs they sell are easy to carry into the house. :)

Most of the dispensing machines you see are not worth the effort to lug the bottles around as they tend to have very poor service and basically provide city water with some light carbon filtering.
 
Sid Post said:
For the vast majority of people in a residential situation, localized "kitchen" Reverse Osmosis or carbon and sediment filters are the best option (assuming you get the one that catches what you are concerned about). These are commonly available at the big box stores and change over time but, are consistently the same in general with a series of filters and a small faucet next to the soap dispenser in your kitchen sink. These are generally good for about 2 gallons a day and replenish themselves as needed since they are tied into household water. Pay attention though, and get a quality unit - not the cheapest one!

If you live in an older home, be aware that adding a household filter system (any of the major common types) will cause built up minerals in the household plumbing to break free and clog faucets, mixing valves, and every orifice that has water passing through it. While not a problem generally with large valves and passages, you can expect to have a lot of problem with washing machines, dishwashers, etc. too.

When I lived in Tucson, Arizona, I used "Water Street Station" which ran industrial water purification to get rid of the arsenic and other things present in household water. ~$15 for a 5 gallon bottle (the jug itself) and a trip once every couple of weeks (with various price points depending on how much water you buy) was the cheapest and easiest solution for me. The cost of a good filter will buy a lot of water and the 2 gallon jugs they sell are easy to carry into the house. :)
Click to expand...

Very interesting. I'm approaching this from the perspective of reducing or eliminating fluoride with the suspicion that there may be a fluoride allergy or toxicity present. It has been very difficult to find someone knowledgeable in this area: in terms of testing, diagnosis and treatment. Today I saw someone affiliated with one of the big Harvard teaching hospital/clinics, and he does not have fluoride in his panel of tests. (He may know someone who has the chemical). He also did not seem to know much about water filtration, pro or con, other than to avoid fluoride to the extent possible. Based on my reading, there are patients who are exquisitely sensitive to fluoride and have myriad systemic symptoms, while there are others who get by with eliminating fluoride toothpaste.

It seems the reverse osmosis is the surest (only?) way to eliminate the fluoride--thanks for the warning on the plumbing(hadn't thought of that one)!--along with everything else in the water. Is this level of filtration overkill/harmful? or not? I don't really know. According to "water street station" site, the answer is no. According to Berkey--which reduces not eliminates fluoride-- it sounds like you want to leave some of the other minerals in the water.

I guess I'm not surprised there aren't more people aware of this concern and giving knowledgeable medical advice.
 
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