Honey horn scales, questions on attaching and liners.

[GrizzlyBear]

A repeat customer of mine is about to place an order for a knife using honey horn as the scale material. I haven't worked with horn yet, but I'm confident enough in my abilities to turn out a nice product if I am educated properly.

First of all, what is the best procedure for attaching the scales to the tang? From my searching, I have seen too many varying methods. Corbys w/o epoxy, corbys with epoxy, peened pins with epoxy only on the pins, epoxy and peened pins both...etc etc. With all these varying methods, it's hard to find the most common one used with the best results.

Secondly, I read that some folks will back the honey horn with gold leaf to compliment the colors and "back light" the horn since it is translucent. Would this same idea work with a thin polished brass liner? I think the line of brass between horn and tang would look quite nice.

I've read about working slowly to prevent burning...and the smell (which I think I'm going to have a hard time with, I have a HIGHLY sensitive sense of smell and bad odors make me gag easily ), how to sand and polish.

Also, any other helpful hints or tricks would be nice.

Thanks in advance!!

 

[JasonSCarter]

Brass behind horn is and excellant idea. and one I use myself on occasion. I use Peened brass pins, and a slow cure epoxy. (24 hour from USA knifemaker) hand file to shape, then hand sand progressivly to atleast 400-600 grit. you can then buff to a HIGH shine afterward. The horn I got from USAknifemaker, is usually not as bad as a smell as I've got elsewhere. but depending my shop has smelled like a cattle lot for up to a week after. :grumpy::barf:

Heres a few I done... This is forged W1 with Honey Horn Bark and 1/32" brass liners.

And if you get a lil thicker brass liner, you can do a lil file work on it, This is Black horn on 3/32 liner,

Jason S Carter

 

[Bill DeShivs]

"Honey horn" is generally horn that has been bleached in hydrogen peroxide. This makes it suceptible to delamination-especially around pin holes.
Horn warps pretty easily, so glues don't work well. Pinning will hold it down, but use as many pis as possible-at or near the edges. Using pins or bolts in the center of the scales only, will inevitably allow horn to curl at the edges-especially if it gets too hot.
The reason gold leaf is used behind translucent materials is becaust it doesn't tarnish-brass does. I have had good luck using a good metallic gold paint on the rear of translucent scales.
Horn doesn't respond well to machine sanding at fine grits. Shape it with coarse grits, then final file (or scrape) to final shape. Sand with 320, then 400 grit, then buff with 0000 steel wool. Final polish on a buffer with green compound, or use Simichrome on a soft cloth "shoeshine-style." Finish with paste wax.
If the horn delaminates while working it, immediately flow thin super glue into the delaminations.
Can't help you with the smell....

 

[lonepine]

Regarding the smell, would a GOOD respirator stem the stench?

As a kid I had to grind horseradish roots one time. I resorted to wearing an old gas-mask my dad had in order to finish the job. This got me thinking about the respirator idea.

- Paul Meske

 

[GrizzlyBear]

Brass behind horn is and excellant idea. and one I use myself on occasion. I use Peened brass pins, and a slow cure epoxy. (24 hour from USA knifemaker) hand file to shape, then hand sand progressivly to atleast 400-600 grit. you can then buff to a HIGH shine afterward. The horn I got from USAknifemaker, is usually not as bad as a smell as I've got elsewhere. but depending my shop has smelled like a cattle lot for up to a week after. :grumpy::barf:

Heres a few I done... This is forged W1 with Honey Horn Bark and 1/32" brass liners.

And if you get a lil thicker brass liner, you can do a lil file work on it, This is Black horn on 3/32 liner,

Jason S Carter

Jason, those look really good! I love the look of the brass liner, especially the file-worked one. On using peened pins and epoxy, are you just gluing the pins and peening them, or are you using the epoxy to bond the brass to the tang and the horn to the brass?

Hand sanding to shape won't be bad, I actually enjoy it. My wood handles are mostly hand sanded after the bulk is removed....seems like when I try to do more with the grinder I screw something up lol.

 

[GrizzlyBear]

"Honey horn" is generally horn that has been bleached in hydrogen peroxide. This makes it suceptible to delamination-especially around pin holes.
Horn warps pretty easily, so glues don't work well. Pinning will hold it down, but use as many pis as possible-at or near the edges. Using pins or bolts in the center of the scales only, will inevitably allow horn to curl at the edges-especially if it gets too hot.
The reason gold leaf is used behind translucent materials is becaust it doesn't tarnish-brass does. I have had good luck using a good metallic gold paint on the rear of translucent scales.
Horn doesn't respond well to machine sanding at fine grits. Shape it with coarse grits, then final file (or scrape) to final shape. Sand with 320, then 400 grit, then buff with 0000 steel wool. Final polish on a buffer with green compound, or use Simichrome on a soft cloth "shoeshine-style." Finish with paste wax.
If the horn delaminates while working it, immediately flow thin super glue into the delaminations.
Can't help you with the smell....

Thanks for the tips. Wouldn't the brass not tarnish if it was bonded to the horn with epoxy? The paint idea is a good one too.

As for the smell, depending on how bad it is, I may get some febreeze and spray my dust mask lol.

 

[GrizzlyBear]

Regarding the smell, would a GOOD respirator stem the stench?

As a kid I had to grind horseradish roots one time. I resorted to wearing an old gas-mask my dad had in order to finish the job. This got me thinking about the respirator idea.

- Paul Meske

Haha, Paul, I actually have a gas mask. My brother gave it to me when he did his stint in Saudi Arabia during the first Gulf War in the early 90's.

 

[JasonSCarter]

Jason, those look really good! I love the look of the brass liner, especially the file-worked one. On using peened pins and epoxy, are you just gluing the pins and peening them, or are you using the epoxy to bond the brass to the tang and the horn to the brass?

Hand sanding to shape won't be bad, I actually enjoy it. My wood handles are mostly hand sanded after the bulk is removed....seems like when I try to do more with the grinder I screw something up lol.

Lol I;m the same way, I mess more up on a grinder, but when I switch to hand tools and I'm good to go. I treat the horn like a soft wood. and work it with that in mind. a good double cut half round file and a good Mill Bastard single cut file will take off material VERY fast. On the epoxy...after I make the liner and handle to fit, I drill a bunch of holes in the liner, staying 1/4" away from the outside edge. this gives the epoxy something to grab on to. Also I dimple the underside of the scale, again keeping atleast 1/4" away from the outside edge. as this gives the epoxy more to hold as well. As for peening the pins, like I said use SLOW CURE epoxy, the reason is, after I slather the glue on, I then peen the pins. then after peening it gets put in a plastic walmart bag and then put in a wood vice with only a few pounds pressure till cured, atleast 12 hours. Also don't forget to counter sink your pin holes to accommodate for the cold forging upset of the pin. I also generally use masking tape and tape off all the tang, and the blade, too keep the epoxy off the pretty shiny parts as it squeezes out from under the scales. Hope this helps!

Jason S. Carter

 

[Bill DeShivs]

The brass won't tarnish as long as it stays bonded to the epoxy, but horn will lift. Epoxy won't hold it if it decides to move-especially around the edges.
Horn responds very well to scraping for shaping. I deal with a lot of horn.