Honing Buck's 420HC?

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pinnah

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Jul 28, 2011
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For the first time, I have a Buck knife, with their hardened 420HC, in my EDC rotation.

All of my other EDC knives are 1095 and after a bit of use, I can return them to hair popping sharp with my strop. Not so with my Buck 500. While it holds a good working edge, it loses it's shaving edge after a bit rather like 1095. But, it doesn't seem to respond to a strop.

I use a Lansky system for sharpening (I use 20 degrees for my EDC knives) and can revive the blade by getting that out, but that's a lot of work to just touch up a blade. I also want to avoid needlessly removing blade material by putting it to a stone, even the fine stone, on a regular basis.

Lastly, my experience with the Lansky has taught me that I don't do well with systems (like free hand sharpening) that require more experience. I'm a pretty good bike mechanic and have a good idea of the time commitment needed to get good at things and with knife sharpening, I accept that I have my limititations.

So, I'm looking for suggestions to the best way to keep and maintain a shaving edge on my Buck 500 that a) minimizes the need for me to hold a consistent angle and b) removes little to no edge material (in a way similar to stropping 1095).

Is this possible or do I just need to accept that 420HC can't be kept as sharp as 1095 for day-in/day-out use?
 
stainless steel is a lot different at edge holding than carbon steel. 420 stainless is not as good as 440 so your knife will dull a lot faster and not hold an edge long. if you want a different method to maintain your edges, check into the paper wheels. they are fast and you can use the slotted wheel instead of a strop to maintain your edges. here is a link to my paper wheel thread. http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=578787
 
What compound are you using on your strop? If the blade isn't responding to it, either the compound isn't aggressive enough, or the edge itself wasn't quite ready for it (not fully apexed & refined with the hones, prior to stropping).

I used my Lansky kit to put new edges on a lot of Case Tru-Sharp blades (a.k.a., 420HC), and at least a couple of Bucks (110/111). It's quite capable of getting the job done. The thing about comparing most stainless steels to 1095 is, the stainless blades will take a little more time to get there, because of the additional alloying elements in the steel (chromium, vanadium, molybdenum). 420HC is also pretty ductile, meaning it'll take more work to clean up burrs & wire edges completely, which usually clean up pretty easily with 1095. When I was initially having trouble figuring out how to put some real pop in my edges, with the Lansky kit, most of my troubles were because I wasn't quite apexing the edge fully. Didn't stay with it long enough. To make sure, I'd recommend using good magnification (10X or better) with bright light, to inspect the edge for complete apex along it's length. Make sure to form a good burr with the coarsest hone, and flip it to the other side, before moving to the next hone. That one, and all hones following, should be used to remove the burr and refine the edge.

Buck's 420HC will hold a good edge (very good, actually). Even longer, in some cases, than some 1095 blades (depending on heat treat). Make sure the edge is fully prepared from the hones first, before trying to strop. The more refined it is coming off the hones, the better it'll respond to stropping as a maintenance option.
 
For day to day use I'd go with a coarser edge on the 420HC. It should still be hair-popping, but Richard's correct, it doesn't have the wear resistance that 1095 has at a comparable RC = more maintenance if worked fine. In my limited experience with 420HC, it takes a fantastic toothy edge and will hold it for a long time.
 
I maintain mine on a sharpmaker, 420hc sharpens up easily. As long as I don't need to take chips out it can go from dull to shaving in minutes.
 
Richard, thanks for the tips on paper wheels. Interesting but my home shop is already pretty crowded and I'm not sure I'm doing the volume of knives to warrant the investment to learn a whole new system. Will need to dig around on the links you sent. Thanks.

Obsessed with Edges said:
What compound are you using on your strop? If the blade isn't responding to it, either the compound isn't aggressive enough, or the edge itself wasn't quite ready for it (not fully apexed & refined with the hones, prior to stropping).
Click to expand...

I'm very open for suggestions regarding compounds. The strop usually has some mixture of rubbing compound and jewler's rouge.

Assuming I can get the edge fully done (big assumption - more on that below), do you find using a strop with the right compound (suggestion?) is enough to maintain 420HC?

I used my Lansky kit to put new edges on a lot of Case Tru-Sharp blades (a.k.a., 420HC), and at least a couple of Bucks (110/111). It's quite capable of getting the job done. The thing about comparing most stainless steels to 1095 is, the stainless blades will take a little more time to get there, because of the additional alloying elements in the steel (chromium, vanadium, molybdenum). 420HC is also pretty ductile, meaning it'll take more work to clean up burrs & wire edges completely, which usually clean up pretty easily with 1095. When I was initially having trouble figuring out how to put some real pop in my edges, with the Lansky kit, most of my troubles were because I wasn't quite apexing the edge fully. Didn't stay with it long enough. To make sure, I'd recommend using good magnification (10X or better) with bright light, to inspect the edge for complete apex along it's length. Make sure to form a good burr with the coarsest hone, and flip it to the other side, before moving to the next hone. That one, and all hones following, should be used to remove the burr and refine the edge.
Click to expand...

I'm beginning to think this is where I'm failing. The knife already has a burr edge on it and it hasn't seen hard work.

I think I need to get better at getting right the wire edge with the Lansky. When I get done, I can't feel the wire edge on either edge but I'm wondering if all I'm doing is getting the wire more or less straight without snapping it off and getting to a true edge. I've very open on suggestions to get past this. More time with the medium stone? How do I get that wire edge to snap off instead of staying straight?

Thanks for the help.
 
pinnah said:
Assuming I can get the edge fully done (big assumption - more on that below), do you find using a strop with the right compound (suggestion?) is enough to maintain 420HC?
Click to expand...

Stropping only works for a while and then the edge will have to go back to the stone, especially if its being used daily. It will extend quite a bit the time between trips to the stone. It removes the last bit of burr which will add quality and longevity to the edge, so well worth the time to learn and do (its an area with a lot of variables).



pinnah said:
I'm beginning to think this is where I'm failing. The knife already has a burr edge on it and it hasn't seen hard work.

I think I need to get better at getting right the wire edge with the Lansky. When I get done, I can't feel the wire edge on either edge but I'm wondering if all I'm doing is getting the wire more or less straight without snapping it off and getting to a true edge. I've very open on suggestions to get past this. More time with the medium stone? How do I get that wire edge to snap off instead of staying straight?

Thanks for the help.
Click to expand...

You'll have to decrease the number of passes per side so the burr is flipped back and forth. This not only weakens the base of the burr but is also shrinking it all the while. At some point it will degenerate into a feathery little ghost of a thing that will disappear with a few passes on a strop or cutting into some soft wood (the strop is much more reliable). Type of steel will be a big factor in how easy/hard that burr is to send packing.
 
pinnah said:
I'm very open for suggestions regarding compounds. The strop usually has some mixture of rubbing compound and jewler's rouge.

Assuming I can get the edge fully done (big assumption - more on that below), do you find using a strop with the right compound (suggestion?) is enough to maintain 420HC?
Click to expand...

The Jeweler's rouge, at least, is probably too soft for the steel. Those compounds are generally intended to polish soft metals (gold, silver), while at the same time, avoiding scrubbing off gold/silver from plated jewelry or valuables/antiques. Polishes formulated for steel, like Flitz or Simichrome (I use this), make pretty good stropping compounds for knives. They are more aggressive than jeweler's rouge, due to the much greater hardness of the still very, very fine particles. That works good for steel, but would be bad news for jewelry. Diamond pastes or sprays, silicon carbide powder (HeavyHanded knows a thing or two about these; search his posts/threads), or aluminum oxide compounds (Flitz/Simichrome) are much more effective for hardened steel knife blades.

I think I need to get better at getting right the wire edge with the Lansky. When I get done, I can't feel the wire edge on either edge but I'm wondering if all I'm doing is getting the wire more or less straight without snapping it off and getting to a true edge. I've very open on suggestions to get past this. More time with the medium stone? How do I get that wire edge to snap off instead of staying straight?

Thanks for the help.
Click to expand...

I used progressively lighter pressure with my medium/fine/UF Lansky hones, to gently (very gently) scrub/file away the wires on my blades. The idea is to carefully abrade it away, while just 'sneaking up' on the apex of the edge, so you don't overdo it and dull your edge or make a new burr/wire. This is where a good magnifier and bright light come in very handy, so you can closely monitor your progress.

HeavyHanded's advice, quoted here, is good (bold emphasis added):
You'll have to decrease the number of passes per side so the burr is flipped back and forth. This not only weakens the base of the burr but is also shrinking it all the while. At some point it will degenerate into a feathery little ghost of a thing that will disappear with a few passes on a strop or cutting into some soft wood (the strop is much more reliable). Type of steel will be a big factor in how easy/hard that burr is to send packing.
Click to expand...
 
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I use green compound on my buck 110.It takes a wicked edge with no problem at all.Excellent steel and it sharpens up easily!
 
OP - On my case SS blades. once I've re profiled an edge to 25 degrees w/ a lanksy. I only use 7-8 passes on each side w/ the stones during touchups. So I generally touch up w/ 14 total passes w/ med followed by 14 total passes w/ fine. Then strop on my jeans.
 
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