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Price is$300$250 ea (shipped within CONUS). If you live outside the US, I will contact you after your order for extra shipping charges.
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Kohai999
Second Degree Cutter
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Damascus PRE-DATES monosteel David....why can't you seem to absorb that?
You have an appreciation of history AS YOU see it, which is charitably called "revisionist".
Damascus IS the steel of the ancients.
You want to honor Ed, that is all well, groovy, warm and fuzzy, but to raise up one while denigrating the other is IGNORANT.
Best Regards,
STeven Garsson
You have an appreciation of history AS YOU see it, which is charitably called "revisionist".
Damascus IS the steel of the ancients.
You want to honor Ed, that is all well, groovy, warm and fuzzy, but to raise up one while denigrating the other is IGNORANT.
Best Regards,
STeven Garsson
Kohai999
Second Degree Cutter
- Joined
- Jul 15, 2003
- Messages
- 12,554
Not entirely, as high carbon and low carbon steels were forged together to create the pattern...in some cases as in Japan, others yes, it is commonly THOUGHT that alloy banding is responsible, but for pattern, there was purposeful AESTHETIC manipulation of the steel, ie Muhammed's Ladder.
The ancient swordmakers also exploited the aesthetic qualities of pattern welded steel. The Vikings in particular were fond of twisting bars of steel around each other, welding the bars together by hammering and then repeating the process with the resulting bars, to create complex patterns in the final steel bar. Two bars twisted in opposite directions created the common chevron pattern. Often, the center of the blade was a core of soft steel, and the edges were solid high carbon steel, similar to the laminates of the Japanese.
Now ask Ed about carburized wrought iron, which is THOUGHT to be a common component of early damascus....
The problem is that no one REALLY knows that much about damascus...the Germans were doing some superb work with it 100 years ago....and admittedly the strides Bladesmiths have made in the last 10 years(stainless damascus, feather pattern damascus, performance damascus....)have been amazing, it is hardly a NEW material.
Wootz steel and Damascus steel
Evidence of the earliest production of high carbon steel in South Asia were found in the Samanalawewa area in Sri Lanka. Wootz steel was produced in India and Sri Lanka from around 300 BC. Along with their original methods of forging steel, the Chinese had also adopted the production methods of creating Wootz steel, an idea imported from India to China by the 5th century AD. This early steel-making method in Sri Lanka employed the unique use of a wind furnace, blown by the monsoon winds and produced almost pure steel. Also known as Damascus steel, wootz is famous for its durability and ability to hold an edge. It was originally created from a number of different materials including various trace elements. It was essentially a complicated alloy with iron as its main component. Recent studies have suggested that carbon nanotubes were included in its structure, which might explain some of its legendary qualities, though given the technology available at that time, they were produced by chance rather than by design.
Now, imo, this early steel had less in common with Ed's 52100 than you would like to think.
Best Regards,
STeven Garsson
The ancient swordmakers also exploited the aesthetic qualities of pattern welded steel. The Vikings in particular were fond of twisting bars of steel around each other, welding the bars together by hammering and then repeating the process with the resulting bars, to create complex patterns in the final steel bar. Two bars twisted in opposite directions created the common chevron pattern. Often, the center of the blade was a core of soft steel, and the edges were solid high carbon steel, similar to the laminates of the Japanese.
Now ask Ed about carburized wrought iron, which is THOUGHT to be a common component of early damascus....
The problem is that no one REALLY knows that much about damascus...the Germans were doing some superb work with it 100 years ago....and admittedly the strides Bladesmiths have made in the last 10 years(stainless damascus, feather pattern damascus, performance damascus....)have been amazing, it is hardly a NEW material.
Wootz steel and Damascus steel
Evidence of the earliest production of high carbon steel in South Asia were found in the Samanalawewa area in Sri Lanka. Wootz steel was produced in India and Sri Lanka from around 300 BC. Along with their original methods of forging steel, the Chinese had also adopted the production methods of creating Wootz steel, an idea imported from India to China by the 5th century AD. This early steel-making method in Sri Lanka employed the unique use of a wind furnace, blown by the monsoon winds and produced almost pure steel. Also known as Damascus steel, wootz is famous for its durability and ability to hold an edge. It was originally created from a number of different materials including various trace elements. It was essentially a complicated alloy with iron as its main component. Recent studies have suggested that carbon nanotubes were included in its structure, which might explain some of its legendary qualities, though given the technology available at that time, they were produced by chance rather than by design.
Now, imo, this early steel had less in common with Ed's 52100 than you would like to think.
Best Regards,
STeven Garsson
Last edited:
Kohai999
Second Degree Cutter
- Joined
- Jul 15, 2003
- Messages
- 12,554
The secrets of damascus were lost for long periods of time....maybe not lost to individuals, but certainly lost to group consciousness, and industry...in England it was Blister, made into Shear steel, and then finally Bessemer steel.
The Bessemer process was the first inexpensive industrial process for the mass-production of steel from molten pig iron. The process is named after its inventor, Henry Bessemer, who took out a patent on the process in 1855. The process was independently discovered in 1851 by William Kelly.The process had also been used outside of Europe for hundreds of years, but not on an industrial scale.The key principle is removal of impurities from the iron by oxidation with air being blown through the molten iron. The oxidation also raises the temperature of the iron mass and keeps it molten.
As early as the 17th century, Europeans knew of India's ability to make crucible steel from reports brought back by travelers who had observed the process at several places in southern India. Several attempts were made to import the process, but failed because the exact technique remained a mystery. Studies of wootz were made in an attempt to understand its secrets, including a major effort by the famous scientist, Michael Faraday, son of a blacksmith. Working with a local cutlery manufacturer he wrongly concluded that it was the addition of aluminium oxide and silica from the glass that gave wootz its unique properties.
The bowie knife as we know it became popular in the US during the 1830's, so we can surmise by history, economy and a natural lag from the U.S. to England that the first Bowie knives from England were made first of Shear steel, and then of Bessemer steel. FWIW, the Bessemer process of steel making persisted worldwide until the 1960's.
Please understand that my knowledge of steel history is rudimentary at best, and there are much better sources for detailed specifics, but educating you on basic steel history is not difficult, and hopefully(since you seem determined NOT to educate yourself) you can come to appreciate the historical significance of ALL steel.
Best Regards,
STeven Garsson