hostage situation scenario

Hawkins

Hawkins

Joined
Aug 5, 2001
Messages
571
a while back, Mr. Walker said that if one has an opportunity to escape in a hostage situation, then to take it, as you will then be a valuable intelligence source. this makes tons of sense... but at what cost?

edit: scroll down a few posts for a better, less leading description.


assume you're in a grounded plane. 4 terrorists have seized control. You don't know what they're demanding, but a 9/11 scenario *isn't* going to happen. negotiations are presumably underway, because you can see the leader on a cell phone talking. he seems calm, but they say that if anyone attempts to escape, they will unceremouniously kill X number of people. (Where X ranges from 1 or 2 people, to detonating a bomb they claim to have.)

You see an opportunity to escape- the over-wing emergency doors are obscured from view, and it MIGHT be possible to get out and onto the tarmack.

No opportunity to safely organize and resist has presented itself, and since the situation is pretty much static, time is not of the essence. you DO have a very good view of the terrorists, including their faces, weapons, positions and roles. Assume no sleeper in the cabin.

is the escape attempt worth it, at cost of hostage lives? its a moral decision, but also has tactical sides as well, as the killing of hostages is a heavy event that will change negotiations, AND will change the terrorists mindset.
 
Mr. Walker did not say that.

Mr. Walker, responding to a specific scenario, offered HE would - under the conditions given by the scenario creator - choose to get off a bus immediately as opposed to trying to assault a crazed gunman who'd just whacked the bus driver.

Your scenario is far different and my response to the bus scenario cannot be likewise applied to yours, oh wise and noble Forum Folk.

Beef your scenario up and let's see what us others have to offer.

For example, how are the 'jackers armed? Where are we? U.S.? Overseas? What is the airliner type? 727? 47? 737? 67? Are we in 1st Class? Business? Coach? Have the 'jackers hurt anyone yet, in any way?

Right now you're posing a moral question in the guise of a scenario. Pose a scenario sans the rhetoric and we'll see where it might go.

Right now all I want to know is what the in-flight movie was supposed to be:D
 
Is that one out?

DARN!

I've missed it!

Is it on video?

And it's "Frisco".

"Spark Does Frisco".

Wow! I never thought they'd make THAT one...:eek:
 
Much better than "Spark does Prisco" or "Greg Walker: Texas Rump Ranger"... both of those did pretty poorly in video release, despite building a cult following.

Regardless - jumping from a bus is much faster and easier than trying to manhandle one of the emergency exit doors and bailing from the aircraft. With 4 terrorists, they have pretty good coverage of most of the aircraft. You'd have to disable at least one or two of the terrorists to have enough time to wrestle the door, toss it, and make it out of line of sight before being shot / stabbed / smoked. Best to sit tight on an airplane and wait for DevGru, Range 19, GSG, or the local boy scouts to storm the plane.

Kevin
 
sorry about that- i guess i overapplied the logic in that situation to all of them.

ok, let me try to redefine it- i thought of the "question" at 6:30 this morning on a Syr to NYC flight, and when i posted it, it sort of got distorted.

beefing the details up:

Airbus A320: single-class, single aisle, with 3 seats on each side. 27 rows, On the tarmac in the US- its a domestic flight. its a major airport, say, LAX, JFK, Newark, etc...

Cockpit has bulletproof doors operable only by the pilot which are closed and locked. you noticed as you boarded the plane that the door *was* open at that point, with the cockpit crew and flight attendents talking by the door. you're not sure when the door was actually closed, and so whether a bad guy managed to get inside or not is unknown. the aircraft was taxiing, and the flight attendants were giving the "safety features" demonstration when the hijackers took over, violently, but with no loss of life.

now four known bad guys appear to be armed with blades/improvised pointy things that they were able to sneak aboard, with no firearms evident. they claim there's a bomb aboard also. you're sitting by the wing emergency exits (poster can decide if they're on the aisle, middle, or window)

the hijackers are all located in the front of the cabin, about 30 feet in front of you. One is sporadically on a cell phone. they've instructed all passengers not to talk and the window-sitting passengers to close the windows.

as a twist of fate, your cell phone isn't usable. (why? because mine wasn't this morning... i don't know why, but for the life of me, i couldn't get a signal when i landed at JFK this morning. made coordinating my ride kind of annoying :)) you've given them no reason to single you out thus far, and have on you what you would normally have on a plane.

hopefully thats better, and doesn't force any moral decision like the original one did...
 
I pop the emergency exit I'm sitting next to and start yelling for folks to "GET OUT!"

If the BGs try to interfere I whip off Mr. Belt / Buckle, grab the flight magazine I've rolled up tight (Improvised Weapons and Training) and block the aisle as folks behind - who want to live - start exiting as fast as they can.

If the BGs split up they're weaker than in a group and face further confrontation from other passengers.

If they come as a team or group with pointy things...well...the fight is on, yes?

If the plane begins to taxi for take-off that probably means BG in cabin although that's a non-certain issue. Plane starts to go...I go as I work my way back to the open exit window.

By now I'm hopeful other stalwart passengers have opened other exits and many, many innocents are off the plane and on the ground.

Tower should have seen the ruckas by now and hopefully airport security (beefed up) is on the way with some sort of plan to disable the plane from taking off (contingency planning...or one hopes so anyway).

Bottom line is passengers act IMMEDIATELY and AGGRESSIVELY given we now know that to do otherwise most likely means certain death for far more folks than those onboard.

"Let's Roll".
 
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