house broken in? or fun with burglers.

ohoisin

ohoisin

Joined
Dec 28, 1999
Messages
1,534
when i was first married me and da wife lived on the bad side of town. one night when i was aslleep (sans clothing) and my wife was out working a midnight shift (this is what truley pi$$ed me off, because i usually worked the midnight and it would have been my wife home alone) two guys break out the window of my bedroom with a crow bar.
i woke up and began shout fro them to come on in so i could beat their @$%^*$^#$* hides. any way i thru on some jeans and scoured part of the neighborhood around te house with my waster(wooden sword). t6he cold finally caught up with me (january in just jeans. so i went back to the house put on some shoes and a jacket picked up my 6 ft iron wood staff and went back out i founmd the sob's on a neighbors porch and was funning up a muddy inmbankment to reach them saying when i catch you i'm going to knock you head off menacing them with the staff. they hopped in a car and sped away. later ifound out it was my neighbor's boy, and the next summer i was using a mowing scythe to cut my grass (about 12 am, when it was cool, the mower was brken and the grass up around my waist) anyway i raised up to shake the grass off of the scythe when the boy's sister looked off her balcony into my yard. her eyes got wide as saucers. needless to say they never came around my house again.
 
A co-worker of mine was once sitting at home watching TV when he heard some funny noises outside. He looks out the window and there are two guys at his car-port breaking into his car. He quickly reached behind the couch to get his Sig P226 and raced out of the house screeming bloody murder.

By now the BGs had manage to get the car started and were already pulling out of the driveway. He races after them down the street and out onto the main avenue before he finally gives up. And as he walks back to his place, and the neighbors are running out in response to all the commotion, he's glad he didn't shoot; but did he really have to run out of the house dressed only in his Fruit of the Loom briefs and waving a loaded gun?

N2S
 
Incidents such as the above are why I have a house alarm which summons the police. I use it even during the day when I am home.

Much better to scare them off.

Chasing people away from your own property is fraught with peril. First, once the danger to your person is over, you cannot use lethal force. Persuing your assailant or burglar puts you in the wrong. You cannot use force to effect a citizen's arrest. Secondly, if the police are notified, and they find some guy in civilian clothes with a gun running down the street, you are likely to be injured yourself.

Even if you are inside your house, and are faced with an assailant, there must be reasonable cause for you to consider yourself in danger for it to be legal for you to use lethal force. For example, if an adult male is confronted with a petite female who breaks into his house unarmed, and he shoots her, he would be in a lot of trouble. Remember the West Hollywood shootout? One of the families of the perps sued the city of Hollywood, as the cops 'callously' let the perp die of his wounds rather than try and save him.

Scare them off, and let them go. Save yourself a lot of grief and lawyer's fees.

Walt
 
Well as a matter of fact I think he DID have to go running out in his undies with a loaded gun!! It's not like he shot anyone. Personally I'd feel better if my neighbors has a little balls instead of being the pacifist dependant wimps that they are. BG's SHOULD be afraid to break into someones house. As things are now a thug can pretty much do whatever they want and get not resistance at all. Maybe one shouldn't use "excessive force" to defend property but if I was on a jury where someone killed a burgler it would probably be a "not guilty" from me.
 
Under the heading of "fun with late night intruders". As a juvenile delinquent I used to practice doing quiet rolling dives out the back windows of my parents' house. One night around 2 AM some friends wandered into my back yard planning on coming up to my window to surprise me. I heard them coming (I'm a night owl) and I went to my brother's room and rolled out his window. As they were trying to sneak my bedroom window open I slipped up behind them holding an 8" dagger as I recall. Recognizing them I looked over their shoulders and whispered "What are we doing?". They nearly dropped their loads and my legend was insured.
 
heck i would chase them down the street naked! with a loaded gun!!
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I heard a rumor that SC won't allow civil lawsuits against homeowners that shoot burglars. This is a step in the right direction. I'm packing my bags at this moment.

Chris
 
From a newsclip I heard last week, our Attorney General here in SC declared an "open season" on home invaders. I understand that he has directed police and prosecutors not to bring charges against homeowners defending themselves, their family, and their property against home invaders. Not that many home invasions around here lately....I wonder why ?
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Walt Welch: The legal aspects of shooting someone in your home vary from state to state. There is no law that is set in stone. Even before our Attorney General's latest statements, I have never known anyone who was prosecuted (or sued) for shooting an intruder in his home.

In any case, I agree that going looking for a burglar is not generally a good idea.

Ohoisin: That was a funny story! JRF.




[This message has been edited by jrf (edited 01-31-2001).]
 
I have learned to live by 2 simple laws.

#1) NOTHING DETERS CRIME LIKE A GAPPING CHEST WOUND.

#2)BETTER TO BE TRIED BY 12 THAN TO BE CARRIED BY 6.
These simple rule seem to work for me...
 
I have learned to live by 2 simple laws.

#1) NOTHING DETERS CRIME LIKE A GAPPING CHEST WOUND.

#2)BETTER TO BE TRIED BY 12 THAN TO BE CARRIED BY 6.
These simple rule seem to work for me...
 
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Walt Welch:
<snip>Even if you are inside your house, and are faced with an assailant, there must be reasonable cause for you to consider yourself in danger for it to be legal for you to use lethal force. <snip>.

Walt</font>
Click to expand...

Depends on the state. Did you see the stuff from South Carolina this week? The AG of the state issued instruction that NO PD arrest anyone who shoots a home invader, and told the populace - Someone breaks into your home while your there, shoot them
 
Sounds like foolish Tombstone Courage to me, also lacking in knife content. Para??

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It's not the pace of life that concerns me, It's the sudden stop at the end.
 
Well, before Para locks her down and moves her to the inner bowels of a tactical forum, where it probably does belong...allow me to offer some advice to folks.

I worked over 8 years for a Burglar Alarm Company. Unless you have spent a minimum of $5,000.00 on your alarm system, you can forget it. It is trash.

You see, a long time ago, some pointy heads in the Alarm Industry decided to tap a market, and now you see all of the various commericals about how an alarm can save you...well...

What they found is, you have to be somewhat wealthy to have a real alarm system in your home. In other words, it has to be a Commercial-Grade Installation with Commercial-Grade Equipment.

The Monitoring Fee is higher because the Equipment involved is far more secure and even then, people can gain entry and make off with the goodies and if the goodies are in your living quarters, if you have fallen asleep on the couch...you are in for a ride.

And, people do this. This is not conjecture. Just because one person has something that has never been attacked, does not mean it will not happen...I have seen it.

Alarm Companies run an interesting Program, to me it is a scam because I have seen it first hand.

They will give you the alarm for free, a "Basic" Unit, with like, front door, back door, one motion sensor (promptly Shunted by the Owner if they have a pet due to an inferior form of Passive Infrared), the control and a keypad. Then you pay them a monthly monitoring fee of $20.00-30.00 per month...for a minimum of 1 to 3 years, depending on the Company and the offer.

They paid for the equipment when you wrote the first check, maybe on the second check.

Then they giggle all the way to the bank.

Try getting a few windows added on to that "Basic" System, which I can tell you is no big deal for an Installer to do, they will charge you up the ass for every additional piece of protection. Why? Money, of course! They discourage the Residential Customer from getting a more involved system because they want to be in and out in a few hours and not a 2, 3 or 4 day Installation. That way, they can bang them out.

So, if you have not spent at least $5,000.00 on your System, you are betting on the lowest common denominator of criminal breaking into your house...the kid next door who wants your VCR and various goodies he can grab quickly and pawn for some crack.

Against real world offenders who learn things in prison I will not talk about in this Thread, you can forget it.

What neighborhoods do they work? Upper middle class to extremely wealthy.

If you are a "known" Gun Collector in your area and you have $5,000.00 worth of firearms (which could be one if you are into Full Auto stuff) and you have that nice, big gun safe...that you paid $1,500.00 for...your next "gun purchase" should be an Excellent Alarm System. Don't screw around with the Better Business Bureau, don't ask the Alarm Company which is akin to a sheep asking a wolf what the wolf wants to have for dinner...choose carefully by asking questions of people who know, in business, the crap and headaches they have had with their Alarm Company, etc...

Good doors, frames and locks, Medeco™ and a few others...

Now you know why when I was "Downsized" I had to sign a Confidentiality Statement for the year following my Termination of Employment in order to get my Severance Package, as everyone else did that was Downsized.

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"You are no more armed because you are wearing a pistol than you are a musician because you own a guitar." ~Jeff Cooper
And the same goes for a knife...
And, I'm a Usual Suspect.

[This message has been edited by Don Rearic (edited 02-01-2001).]
 
By the way,

No one around here seriously suggests that someone have in their arsenal one of the "Screamer Alarms" that people are advised to carry instead of a real weapon.

That is what an alarm is if it is not monitored.

If it is monitored, you have Employee Error and Negligence to deal with on the Company's end...and on prison, people are still taught how to get by things as surely as they are passing back and forth information about lockpicking and Anti-Cuffing Techniques, you name it and they do it.

So, there it is. You get what you pay for and to get a really good alarm, you need to spend some serious money.

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"You are no more armed because you are wearing a pistol than you are a musician because you own a guitar." ~Jeff Cooper
And the same goes for a knife...
And, I'm a Usual Suspect.
 
My alarm system has 8 paws, 2 tails and 2 snouts with a total of 84 teeth. He & she.
Two times indruders ran, when my alarm system was tripped.
One little disadvantage: you have to walk them 4 times a day.

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Ted
 
I will just put my two cents in here, following Don's line of thinking. I dont know much about the alarm side like he does, but I am a locksmith and can speak from that point of view. If a person wants in bad enough, they can do it. The thing is, make it as difficult as possible. If you have flimsy doors and frames, then it is fairly easy to bust the frames with brute force. If your frames and doors are good and solid thats a plus. However, if you still have bargain basement locks, those are easily overcome by somebody who really wants in. The ideal combo is solid frames and doors, and high security locks such as medeco or ASSA. Those locks are able to be defeated, but the time required to do it (even for a decent locksmith) is more than a burglar would be comfortable with. Most burglars want in fast, they dont wanna spend so much time that all who drive by will see them. If you get a safe to store your valuable stuff, make it a good one. Ask questions and do your homework. Sometimes asking a lockshop is fine, other times, like anybody else they have a model they wanna get rid of, and will push it on the first person who walks through the door. Make sure and ask if it has a 'hard-plate' to resist drilling attempts. Also, make sure it has a re-locker, which secures the safe in the event the primary lock is compromised by force. What it boils down to is making burglary a pain in the a$$ for the bad guy.

Hey, its a bit off the topic, but sound advice anyways
smile.gif



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Richard Todd - Digital knife photography
icq 61363141
My WebSite
Do your site a favor, get quality digital images!!!
New photos added!!!
 
Richard,

And those Y1 Keyways were always a pain to me if I could not find my favorite narrow wrench too.
biggrin.gif
If it is loaded with 'Shrooms/Spools, added trouble. Most 'Smiths resort to the "Black & Decker Pick" at times.

I think it would be safe to advise anyone in here shopping for a Heavy Duty Safe to get one with a U.L. (Underwriters Laboratories) TTL-15 Rating or higher. "TTL" is a Torch & Tool Attack rating that it would take someone who knows what they are doing approximately 15 minutes to open the safe with good tools. If at all possible, bolt the safe down and wire a heat & smoke detector into the Alarm System Burglar Side if you can so it comes through as Burglar A. and not necessarily Fire A.

Burglar & Fire Alarm Systems can also carry a U.L. Rating, but they have to be Individually Inspected in person and cannot just be "purchased." Then you get a Certificate and a discount on Insurance, etc., in fact, some stores, etc., cannot even obtain insurance without one. Another little gimmick that brings in the bucks for alarm companies.

Richard, you are in a much "Higher" Profession than the Alarm Industry, although alot of 'Smiths have crossed over and do that as well, then they sub-out the Monitoring.
smile.gif


I used to do all the "lockouts" for Customers as a freebie to the Company and for Company Vehicles, etc...

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"You are no more armed because you are wearing a pistol than you are a musician because you own a guitar." ~Jeff Cooper
And the same goes for a knife...
And, I'm a Usual Suspect.
 
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">And those Y1 Keyways were always a pain to me if I could not find my favorite narrow wrench too. If it is loaded with 'Shrooms/Spools, added trouble. Most 'Smiths resort to the "Black & Decker Pick" at times.

</font>
Click to expand...

Don, I dont have a B&D pick....mine is a DeWalt
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Anyways, Don brings out another good point. For standard locks, Yale locks can be difficult to pick because of the funky shaped keyway. Also, the mushroom pins will drive ya nuts trying to pick one. Yales are not cheap, but generally are a bit less than high security locks.



------------------
Richard Todd - Digital knife photography
icq 61363141
My WebSite
Do your site a favor, get quality digital images!!!
New photos added!!!
 
In college I was in a fraternity, our house was in the bad part of town and had a history of problems with the locals. The day I moved into the house I walked down the street with my 9' Burmese python wrapped around my shoulders, I would also sit out on the front porch with it. We never had any problems while I lived there. My snake was pretty harmless, it only bit me once and that was my fault (do not handle a hungry snake if you are intoxicated), but psychologically it was a killer.
 
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