How about a "sticky" thread with pictures of counterfits for reference?

[DeSotoSky]

The counterfits are getting better. Here's another. A bunch of these are coming in from Hong Kong but this seller is California based. I was interested in this one until I looked a little closer. There is a very similar legitimate 694 buildout. How about a permanent sticky thread documenting known counterfits? I think the problem is getting worse. Previously the sellers seemed to be mostly Asia based but I think I'm now seeing more sellers USA based. I'm just afraid that if we start documenting the flaws that give them away the counterfiters will use that information to correct them.

 

[sitflyer]

The counterfits are getting better. Here's another. A bunch of these are coming in from Hong Kong but this seller is California based. I was interested in this one until I looked a little closer. There is a very similar legitimate 694 buildout. How about a permanent sticky thread documenting known counterfits? I think the problem is getting worse. Previously the sellers seemed to be mostly Asia based but I think I'm now seeing more sellers USA based. I'm just afraid that if we start documenting the flaws that give them away the counterfiters will use that information to correct them.

I believe that you are correct in that assumption DSky...

 

[mbjannusch]

I'm not entirely sure that picture posted is a fake. Just because it came from over seas doesn't mean it a repro/fake. I think making a sticky would be an ever changing list. A sticky is for concrete information that doesn't change, or rarely gets updated. Fakes come and go depending on what's selling on the auction sites. It would be a full time job to keep accurate records of what's being forged. Even the sellers will take down their listings on most occasions when threatened, but will come back with another bogus business front, selling the same forged crap. You cant fight it, you just have to arm yourself with the information on what to look for and if you don't know if its a fake don't buy it, do some research or buy it from a dealer you trust and have done bizzzzzz with.

 

[oregon]

Give CA Dave the job of maintaining a list of vendors selling fakes. Rouge gallery of cheaters in alphabetical order. Dave gets my vote for his competency and descretion.

 

[Geddinight]

I am not very familiar with the newer Buck designs. I would not know a fake from a real one if the model number and date coding were on the blade. I enjoy seeing all the fake photographs, it helps me learn. Keeping up with the list would be challenging I'd think.

I would not know the above knife is a fake. It has the buck name, a model number and a date symbol. It's stamped into the blade. What do you look for if you are not familiar with the model numbers?

 

[DeSotoSky]

I'm not entirely sure that picture posted is a fake. Just because it came from over seas doesn't mean it a repro/fake. I think making a sticky would be an ever changing list. A sticky is for concrete information that doesn't change, or rarely gets updated. Fakes come and go depending on what's selling on the auction sites. It would be a full time job to keep accurate records of what's being forged. Even the sellers will take down their listings on most occasions when threatened, but will come back with another bogus business front, selling the same forged crap. You cant fight it, you just have to arm yourself with the information on what to look for and if you don't know if its a fake don't buy it, do some research or buy it from a dealer you trust and have done bizzzzzz with.

Matt, I think you are probably right that my sticky idea isn't practical. I am positive this knife is a fake though. Here is a picture and accompanying text for the same knife listed by an overseas seller. They don't even try to cover up the fact that the knife is made in China and say so right in the description. I did a little homework and can see least 6 differences between this one and a real one that I won't detail in print. This one is from a completed auction and sold for $15.01. The following text was pasted directly from the eBay auction that accompanied the pictures. It's so bad that the description lists the blade steel as 5Cr13 and the knife is stamped with the BOS symbol and 12C27M... I highlighted the sellers admission of origin in red.

The Knife made in CHINA .

You are biding on ONE knife

Condition：New
Overall length: 20.7 cm (8 1/8")
blade length：9.3 cm (3 5/8")
blade width：3.8 cm
blade material: 5Cr13
hardness：HRC57
blade thickness：3.5 mm
handle: wood
Sheath: leather.

 

[mbjannusch]

I still dont see the glaring details that prove that this knife isn't a real Buck manufactured knife. Buck does produce knives in china, and typically the Buck head cut out is a common detail of these off shore produced knives. Buck does use different steels in their off shore productions, and the listing could have an error in the description, it happens all the time. 12C27M is a Sandivic steel used by lots of knife makers and is used by Buck, if I'm not mistaken. What makes this Fake.

 

[mbjannusch]

Here is a return message from the seller of this knife.

Dear mbjannusch,

friend,this knife is from Swiss Knife China PC OEM.
please don't worry about its quality,it is very good and have been sold a lot.
it is a fair price for a good item.
if you have any other questions,wecome to connect me ,i will reply you soon.

- ccoperation

 

[DeSotoSky]

I still dont see the glaring details that prove that this knife isn't a real Buck manufactured knife. Buck does produce knives in china, and typically the Buck head cut out is a common detail of these off shore produced knives. Buck does use different steels in their off shore productions, and the listing could have an error in the description, it happens all the time. 12C27M is a Sandivic steel used by lots of knife makers and is used by Buck, if I'm not mistaken. What makes this Fake.

Most importantly, BUCK has NEVER exported the manufacture of an American made knife to China. Any American made BUCK knife still is an American made BUCK knife. It's my position than only an American made 194 is a legitimate BUCK manufactured knife. Yes, BUCK has a small import line, but they are different knives than the American product line. There is overlap with the 300 series slippies but the China ones get different model numbers and are clearly marked "China".

I think what we've come to Matt is I'm arguing it's fake because it's made in China and your position is that since BUCK manufactures other knives in China it could be a legitimate BUCK product....where's CJ or Joe when you need them....

 

[Plumberdv]

I don't recall any imports with the Buck head cut out. The only Buck I've seen from China with a blade cutout is a weird looking fixed blade that was originally made for the RMEF and IIRC, that one had only a hoof cutout.

I'd love to see the others if they exist.

"Buck does produce knives in china, and typically the Buck head cut out is a common detail of these off shore produced knives."

Matt, do you have any links to or pictures of the ones you referred to?

 

[mbjannusch]

I don't recall any imports with the Buck head cut out. The only Buck I've seen from China with a blade cutout is a weird looking fixed blade that was originally made for the RMEF and IIRC, that one had only a hoof cutout.

I'd love to see the others if they exist.

"Buck does produce knives in china, and typically the Buck head cut out is a common detail of these off shore produced knives."

Matt, do you have any links to or pictures of the ones you referred to?

No, maybe I just made that up because they look funny and I wouldn't want a knife with a big head cut out of the center of the blade. Its my imagination. Everybody is wrong once in a while. Were all still learning here...

 

[st8yd]

I think posting the pictures of the fakes in a sticky is a good idea. As that knife will continue to circulate even if the vender disappears. I tend to agree about not giving the specifics away, but on the same token if they can get the knife that close I gaurantee you they can make it perfect if they wanted to.

 

[Plumberdv]

The "Alpha" in the photos is a total fake. I received one yesterday and compared it to the one that it was copied from. The stamp is wrong, when have you ever seen a Buck with a blade cutout with a standard stamp? I haven't and the real one I own has the custom shop stamp.

The handles are a cheap orange looking color and the sheath is not even real leather with no model stamp on the back or Buck on the snap.

I got a song and dance from the seller about being a poor college student just trying to earn his tuition. He never even suggested that he didn't know they were fake, just said sorry I wasn't happy with it.

He has until tomorrow to take down the listings for all his fake Bucks or he gets negative feedback and 0 stars across the board. With only 27 feedbacks, that will really hurt his eBay selling career and at this point, he's pondering what to do and "will get back to me".

 

[mbjannusch]

You go Dave...

 

[Plumberdv]

I have to correct myself. I just found a photo of a Folding Alpha Hunter that I owned that has a blade cut out of an eagle and has the modle number and date stamp.

Here's a couple of pictures of my Alpha Hunter that I believe was the model for the fake. When I locate where I have it stored, I'll post side by side pictures of it and the fake.

 

[skyhorse]

Way to go Dave!:thumbup:

 

[Plumberdv]

Some small levels of sucess can be obtained with just a bit of effort. The seller of the fake Alpha Hunter has removed all of the listing for that model from his auctions and has revised the listings for all the fake Vanguards. As you can see from these pictures, he has removed all indications that they are Buck knives and there's no where in the listing title or description that even has the word Buck in it.

It's somewhat like busting the small time dope dealer on the street corner but if enough get busted, perhaps the main supplier will be hurt in the long run.

 

[oregon]

Congratulations Dave. Fine work with logic and reason against forgers.

I noticed no bad actors in my sweep of BUCK via the auction site this AM. I use these filters nearly 100% of the time: exclude "creek" and "shot" key words, seller must be in the USA, newly listed and groups of 200 items. You have removed malfeasance, Buck fakers, from one of my most enjoyed activities. Thank you kindly.