How about double temper lines?

[Yvsa]

:
I was reading the threads on the multiple quench and brass rod test and someone said something about getting double temper lines.

Ed will you help us out with this too?
I found your other two "How To" instructions very clear.
Thanks.

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>>>>---¥vsa---->®
Cornbread ain't s'possed ta be sweet!....Dagnabit gurl,whut did they teach you way up north in .... hehehe.

 

[Doug W]

Let me try!

I will look forward to Ed's post also 'cause I will learn somthing new, but here is how I do it:

Using my home made two tip torch tip, I heat the edge to nonmagnetic a little more than one third of the way to the spine and quench edge down in texico B. (160 degrees F) Clean off the oil and heat again with my torch this time a little less than on third the way is nonmagnetic and quench again! Three tempers and finish. Etch in ferric cloride lightly and if you were carefull with your thirds, you get two temper lines.
Cool, hay what?

I have done this with 10xx, 5160, 52100 and ofs (old file steel)

My knives are forged to shape, noramlized three times, process anealed once before all of the above starts.

Hope all of this helps,

Doug

 

[Yvsa]

:
Thanks Doug!!
I forget sometimes just how many people here have experience.

Do you also kinda eyeball the color when bringing the steel up to critical?
I realize that you use a magnet,but sometimes color can help you know when your getting close I understand.

Also I see where you and Ed both talk about normalising the blades before proceding on to something else.What does that mean if y'all don't mind?
Thanks!!

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>>>>---¥vsa---->®
Cornbread ain't s'possed ta be sweet!....Dagnabit gurl,whut did they teach you way up north in .... hehehe.

 

[Ed Caffrey]

This is getting to be fun! I havn't said too much in the past, simply because a lot of folks don't think the way I heat treat works because it's not written in a heat treating book. Anyway, on to the goods.......I like the way Doug describes how he achieves multiple temper lines, here is how I do it.
Because I use a "limiter plate" in my quench tank, I simply change the depth of the plate before each quench when I want multiple temper lines. I still take each heat to critical prior to quenching, but thinking about it, Doug may be on to something. I'll have to study on it a bit more, and maybe do a little testing, but if my hunch is correct, that method might be a way of achieving banite or a martinsite/banite mixture.
About normalizing: Normalizing is a stress relieving step. I try to do this whenever I do anything that might stress the steel. Things like forging, rough grinding, all produce stresses. An example would be that none of us can grind exactly even on each side of a blade, with the same pressure and consistency. I normalize not only after forging, but also after I grind, prior to hardending to help further avoid any warpage. I haven't conducted a great deal of experimenting to determine if it has a large impact on cutting performance, but the preliminaries look promising.
http://www.mtn-webtech.com/~caffrey



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Ed Caffrey
"The Montana Bladesmith"

 

[Yvsa]

:
Thanks Ed.
I started in a machine shop in 1958 and got to watch some "old farts" at work.

A lot of what they did rubbed off on me I am afraid and now I am the

ld fart."
The point being was these ol' boys didn't always have what they needed to do with.We finally got a pretty nice furnace and salt and oil tanks for properly heat treating some critical die parts.There were still a lot of the quick and dirtymethods used.Heat it to cherry red and dunk it in the oil 'till it cooled.
The parts worked pretty darned good!!
The problem being most people think cherry red is really cherry red.

I really enjoy the information that's exchanged here and grateful for it.

If y'all could explain how to normalize now that would be good.
There are so many things that is taken for granted that I sure don't know.
I copied and pasted the other threads and printed them off.
I know it's in the archives,but this way I don't have to hunt it and I can pass it on to those who may be interested too.
Thanks again.

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>>>>---¥vsa---->®
Cornbread ain't s'possed ta be sweet!....Dagnabit gurl,whut did they teach you way up north in .... hehehe.

 

[Ed Caffrey]

Yvsa,
Your my kind of person! Even with all the technology, sometimes the old ways are the best.
Noramlizing is possibly the eaisiest step in the forging process. Bring the workpiece to just below critical temp, and allow it to cool in still air. I do this in conjunction with stamping my name on blades, just before they go into the first quench. I think the best thing that a person can do with any and all of these steps is to experiment, and try different things. I believe that we have only scratched the surface where heat treating is concerned. Take Care!
http://www.mtn-webtech.com/~caffrey

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Ed Caffrey
"The Montana Bladesmith"

 

[Yvsa]

:
Thanks Ed.
I have to agree that many of the old ways are best.Many of them saved my A$$ many times in the 35 years I wound up in the machine shops.Only in the last few years did I get involved in any heat treating.
Most of it was simple and for tooling & bearing surfaces.Most of the time it was the harder the better and the finish had to be a highly polished surface.

Maybe that's one reason I am so fond of the H.I. hukuri's.
The Kamis work on a dirt floor and pound the old springs heated in charcoal found in the forest after a fire.The clincher is they pour cold water on the hot blade to harden it.
I find that awesome.
Thanks for the help.

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>>>>---¥vsa---->®
Cornbread ain't s'possed ta be sweet!....Dagnabit gurl,whut did they teach you way up north in .... hehehe.